What Could You Have Done Better?

[T/H]

or better put, what areas do you need to improve?

[easeup]

I'll kick off for you.............

on OTC hunts, I still say the hardest part is finding elk to hunt. the number of days we hunt and the miles we walk that leads to little or no sign.
What can be done better? We have got to improve on this single item!

Once I can find some elk to play, it may take a few days.....but usually you will get a good shot opportunity.

[T/H]

boy that is a dilemna when dealing with silent elk for sure. what can a guy do to better locate them when they are silent?

[>>>---WW---->]

TH: For me the #1 thing to do when they are not talking is to know your hunting area. Just because they aren't saying anything, doesn't mean they aren't there. Find some fresh sign and use the silent calling tecnique. You'll be suprized how much your odds increase.

[POk3s]

KILL the elk I get close to. We all know this is the hardest part. I was within 100 yards from 6 different 6 point bulls. I even called one into 12 yards. He was dubbed "the growler" for obvious reasons and when I had him coming in on a string I was as pumped as I'd ever been. I had heard him everyday for 5 days and hadn't seen him yet. When he popped out he was a 270ish class 6 point. Not the 350+ bull I thought he was but still plenty good enough for me. He was quartered at me walking the whole time. I figured I could draw and stop him when he spooked. nope. The next weekend I hunted a 320" bull for two days and missed him the second day. Didn't have time to range him, guessed the yardage as he was in my last shooting lane and guessed wrong. I could go on with every encounter but this is what I NEED to do. I ended up shooting a 4x5 that I called in.

I'm not sure I can even improve on this. I found the elk, found good bulls, found the bugling action, I know the area, and I know what the elk are saying. I got close....I just couldn't wrap it up on a 6 point.

[WapitiTalk1]

Been chewing on this one for a bit David. Good thread BTW. Would have to say that:

1. I should have considered the SEP 12 fires as a potential game changer this year (couldn't hike down into the spot we orignally planned to go with the heavy smoke in the draw). Good thing is that we were able to check out numerous other areas, ultimately resulting in some very good spots we'll hunt next year. Could have been bad though, the original target area's inaccessibility (sp) could have busted our hunt.

2. Listen to folks who told me the Bridgeford sandwiches were not what I wanted, each day, for my two week hunt. Not good at all. Will plan a different mid day food item(s) for next year. Should have planned my two week menu better.. Didn't bring enough little hot sauce packets to liven up the MH meals.

3. Mark some of the game trails we found better. As thick as the area was I hunted in, I should have taken more time to mark some of the pack/access trails on the old GPS. I've got a lot of stuff marked but should have done more. Sure makes it easy to get out of some of the alder hell holes if I have some of those old game trails marked. In this particular area, you "must" know where the trails are or you may just spend your nights in the alder jungles, unprepared. Don't worry Tim, I know where most of the trails are.... kind of

4. Didn't kill an elk. That, I certainly could have done better .. Was so very close more than a few times.

[RockyMountainHi]

Scout in advance what will be options B & C when option A doesn't pan out. While option A provided some encounters, it just wasn't as many or as active as in prior years and in hindsight, a 5 or 10 mile move might have been just the ticket.

[planebow]

I have to get better at hunting the open ground of the Breaks in eastern Montana. Spotting elk is not a problem but getting within shooting distance is. I did manage to get a spike this year by walking down one of the little sharp draws. I have not had much success at stalking as the wind always seem to change when I start getting close

[ElkNut1]

T/H, be creative in your calling when dealing with Silent Elk!! Everyone seems to feel that calling to non-vocal elk requires the use of cow sounds or cow sounds & small bull sounds, yes this can work at times & depending on the phase of the rut will net nothing. When this happens get creative & switch gears! Patience & confidence that elk will show is huge at this stage! When the above technique is not working & you really feel elk are within earshot switch to being a bull entering a new area & advertising himself, this requires no cow calling at all, it generally will attract bulls in the area. It can take 5 min or 30 min so be patient & still when not representing this new bull!

A "new bull coming into an area can use various sounds along with lots & lots of raking & foot stomping, he will groan, moan & give half hearted bugles & light chuckling as he does this, he's starting to feel his "oats" & knows the rut is near, he's representing himself to "ALL" elk in the area, both bulls & cows & wants to be known by both genders. Elk do not just shrug these sounds off! In many cases they will show silently to check him out!

This is the exact technique my son & I used last year early season before strong rutting had occurred, it took 15-20 min but out of nowhere with no calling of their own 2 5-points showed up slipping in & Paul Jr took one at 23yds!

At times my downfall is "Patience" it is getting easier though!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ElkNut1

[32hunter]

1: Get in alot better shape. I didnt do to bad but after several days of hunting it wore me down alot.
2: Go after that bull when my buddy says he is too far. left two big bulls up on the mountain because they were two miles away when we found them.
3: follow my instincts and stop listening to my buddies.
4: Get a good range finder(already got it) a cheap range finder cost me 2 bulls this year.
5: Save up more money for the trip and the things ill need up there. Towards the end of the hunt with fuel prices i was strapped. let a cow walk the last day because i was worried about paying to get it processed. when i got home and checked the bank account i was ok but it was one more thing i worried about up there.

[horseshoe]

we hunted a busy otc unit in colorado.

expect the unexpected! EVERY elk we worked came in quiet!

and then....your head better be on a swivel, you never know where they will pop out!

[Heartwood]

Always, always stop the bull for the shot! Learned that one the hard way like many lessons.
Seriously, performing and thinking clearly when it's crunch time is not always easy for me but I am getting better at it.

[T/H]

one of the "many" things i need to improve on is seeing them before they see me. i can't tell you guys how many times i've looked at an elk already staring holes thru me and are gone long before i could think about drawing my bow.

[horseshoe]

we should have been more aggressive! 3 of us hunted together. when we did get a bull to answer (most didn't) we never went at him. we were set-up and waited. none of these vocal bulls would come in. all of our encounters came in silent.

[T/H]

as i was sitting here reliving my awesome hunt i got to thinking about this certain encounter. and wondering what i could have done better. i'll set the stage for you.

i think it must have been between 9:45 and 10:15am, i had hiked in about 4.5 miles picking my spots to call from along the way. i was down in the bottom of a drainage. i was heading towards a water tank marked on my GPS. I took a break and had a drink. about the time i put my pack back on i heard a loud growl. a sound i had not heard before. i mean it was as deep pitched as what i imagine a European elk to sound like. it was almost moose like!

so anyways to steal a phrase from Paul, i did not "dilly dally" around as you can imagine. i immediately grabbed my Chuckler tube and screamed a challenge/grunts. the bull went off on me. i really felt i was going to kill this bull. he was BIG. when i started raking it sent the bull into a frenzy and i could see parts of his giant rack thru the trees as he would pace back and forth at about 40-50 yards. when i saw this i knew he had cows with him and probably another bull harassing him and waiting for an opportunity to hook a cow. this was my guess anyway. my stick (4" diameter branch) broke and while retrieving another one i was spotted by the lead cow. she barked and it fell apart. i let out a scream and the herd kept getting further away. it slowed them a little but only momentarily. in my haste to start dogging the herd i got busted by the other lead cow 20 yards to my right and there went the rest of the herd and the other bull. i was in a great position and blew it:(

[easeup]

great story TH. in hindsight you could have got ready to kill that bull after the stick broke. set up to draw with the come save me mew from your diaphragm.
I think from interpreting your post that I would have been too scared to move after the stick broke anyway because I never want to be seen. assuming you could seen a little of him pacing back and forth.

[>>>---WW---->]

Dave, I had a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. When the herd started moving away from me I held my ground, started raking brush, and I gave a short bugle and several excited cow calls or mews. Apparently the bull did think I was stealing one of his cows and he turned around to come back towards me. I think all the excitement of the chuckles, excited cow mews, and high pitch bugles I was giving out had turned him around and got him to come back looking for the cow I had stolen from him.

When he got within bow range, I was ready and waiting for him and I placed an arrow in his vitals. Now I know it isn't this easy all the time, but on this particular bill it worked like a charm. I only wish they were all this easy.

I never did chase after the herd. Instead, I held my ground right where I was and tried to do a scenario that would convince him that I had peeled one of his cows from the fringe of his herd. I really think that this is one of the things that convinced him to come back looking for me. There was no doubt in my mind that he was coming back to get his cow away from me.

[T/H]

great story TH. in hindsight you could have got ready to kill that bull after the stick broke. set up to draw with the come save me mew from your diaphragm.
I think from interpreting your post that I would have been too scared to move after the stick broke anyway because I never want to be seen. assuming you could seen a little of him pacing back and forth.

yes i could see him pacing but not enough of him to get a good quality shot. would this have been an encounter where saying nothing would have been a better decision on my part? it's almost like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop

i have been in encounters in the past where i did nothing because i was scared to move. care to guess what the results were?

[T/H]

Dave, I had a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. When the herd started moving away from me I held my ground, started raking brush, and I gave a short bugle and several excited cow calls or mews. Apparently the bull did think I was stealing one of his cows and he turned around to come back towards me. I think all the excitement of the chuckles, excited cow mews, and high pitch bugles I was giving out had turned him around and got him to come back looking for the cow I had stolen from him.

When he got within bow range, I was ready and waiting for him and I placed an arrow in his vitals. Now I know it isn't this easy all the time, but on this particular bill it worked like a charm. I only wish they were all this easy.

I never did chase after the herd. Instead, I held my ground right where I was and tried to do a scenario that would convince him that I had peeled one of his cows from the fringe of his herd. I really think that this is one of the things that convinced him to come back looking for me. There was no doubt in my mind that he was coming back to get his cow away from me.

thanks Bill. the key is you "did something" and with a purpose. i'm guessing you had been in similar situations in the past to due what you did. i had a similar encounter my first year hunting elk in 2008 only i had 0 experience and had no idea what the elk were doing, why they were doing it or what they were saying.

[dotman]

Been chewing on this one for a bit David. Good thread BTW. Would have to say that:

1. I should have considered the SEP 12 fires as a potential game changer this year (couldn't hike down into the spot we orignally planned to go with the heavy smoke in the draw). Good thing is that we were able to check out numerous other areas, ultimately resulting in some very good spots we'll hunt next year. Could have been bad though, the original target area's inaccessibility (sp) could have busted our hunt.

2. Listen to folks who told me the Bridgeford sandwiches were not what I wanted, each day, for my two week hunt. Not good at all. Will plan a different mid day food item(s) for next year. Should have planned my two week menu better.. Didn't bring enough little hot sauce packets to liven up the MH meals.

3. Mark some of the game trails we found better. As thick as the area was I hunted in, I should have taken more time to mark some of the pack/access trails on the old GPS. I've got a lot of stuff marked but should have done more. Sure makes it easy to get out of some of the alder hell holes if I have some of those old game trails marked. In this particular area, you "must" know where the trails are or you may just spend your nights in the alder jungles, unprepared. Don't worry Tim, I know where most of the trails are.... kind of

4. Didn't kill an elk. That, I certainly could have done better .. Was so very close more than a few times.

Since we don't have to pack into basecamp maybe pack a big tent in and the supertarp can stay in the pack for when we get lost . Haha

[T/H]

Been chewing on this one for a bit David. Good thread BTW. Would have to say that:

1. I should have considered the SEP 12 fires as a potential game changer this year (couldn't hike down into the spot we orignally planned to go with the heavy smoke in the draw). Good thing is that we were able to check out numerous other areas, ultimately resulting in some very good spots we'll hunt next year. Could have been bad though, the original target area's inaccessibility (sp) could have busted our hunt.

2. Listen to folks who told me the Bridgeford sandwiches were not what I wanted, each day, for my two week hunt. Not good at all. Will plan a different mid day food item(s) for next year. Should have planned my two week menu better.. Didn't bring enough little hot sauce packets to liven up the MH meals.

3. Mark some of the game trails we found better. As thick as the area was I hunted in, I should have taken more time to mark some of the pack/access trails on the old GPS. I've got a lot of stuff marked but should have done more. Sure makes it easy to get out of some of the alder hell holes if I have some of those old game trails marked. In this particular area, you "must" know where the trails are or you may just spend your nights in the alder jungles, unprepared. Don't worry Tim, I know where most of the trails are.... kind of

4. Didn't kill an elk. That, I certainly could have done better .. Was so very close more than a few times.

Since we don't have to pack into basecamp maybe pack a big tent in and the supertarp can stay in the pack for when we get lost . Haha

i can picture it now. Tim and Rory out there making videos while trying to start a fire while doing a run n gun style hunt instead of getting after the elk........oh wait that was Campo and company nevermind

[WapitiTalk1]

Since we don't have to pack into basecamp maybe pack a big tent in and the supertarp can stay in the pack for when we get lost . Haha[/quote]


i can picture it now. Tim and Rory out there making videos while trying to start a fire while doing a run n gun style hunt instead of getting after the elk........oh wait that was Campo and company nevermind [/quote]

Fire? Fire? Of what fire do you speaketh of sir? ... I have a feeling that the supertarp may come into play for sure.. That dang Tim probably wants to kill an elk for some crazy reason (after traveling 1000 miles) and will not want to leave the alder jungles of ID where they're singing multiple miles away from where we parked the quads. Crap, I may have to actually go to work this year.. .

[T/H]

Since we don't have to pack into basecamp maybe pack a big tent in and the supertarp can stay in the pack for when we get lost . Haha

i can picture it now. Tim and Rory out there making videos while trying to start a fire while doing a run n gun style hunt instead of getting after the elk........oh wait that was Campo and company nevermind [/quote]

Fire? Fire? Of what fire do you speaketh of sir? ... I have a feeling that the supertarp may come into play for sure.. That dang Tim probably wants to kill an elk for some crazy reason (after traveling 1000 miles) and will not want to leave the alder jungles of ID where they're singing multiple miles away from where we parked the quads. Crap, I may have to actually go to work this year.. .[/quote]

well we have kind of trumped you up a little bit i think he actually got the impression that you'd show him where the elk were. guess he didn't read your resume on the other forum lol

[dotman]

Fire? Fire? Of what fire do you speaketh of sir? ... I have a feeling that the supertarp may come into play for sure.. That dang Tim probably wants to kill an elk for some crazy reason (after traveling 1000 miles) and will not want to leave the alder jungles of ID where they're singing multiple miles away from where we parked the quads. Crap, I may have to actually go to work this year.. .

Just remember to pack 7days worth of food in your daypack . We are only lost if we don't return on the last day!

[dotman]

well we have kind of trumped you up a little bit i think he actually got the impression that you'd show him where the elk were. guess he didn't read your resume on the other forum lol

that's ok, you know in Paul's video/cd when he talks about his brother-in-law squeeking away laughing while they sat down for a snack, that is my bulging

[T/H]

Fire? Fire? Of what fire do you speaketh of sir? ... I have a feeling that the supertarp may come into play for sure.. That dang Tim probably wants to kill an elk for some crazy reason (after traveling 1000 miles) and will not want to leave the alder jungles of ID where they're singing multiple miles away from where we parked the quads. Crap, I may have to actually go to work this year.. .

Just remember to pack 7days worth of food in your daypack . We are only lost if we don't return on the last day!

Ummmmmm you had better talk him into a bigger daypack like a T1 and out of his current daypack that doesn't have enough room

[dotman]

Ummmmmm you had better talk him into a bigger daypack like a T1 and out of his current daypack that doesn't have enough room

the good thing is I know his pack will hold 7days of food and a sleepin bag pretty easy, I've put more into it with the aid of the duffle

[WapitiTalk1]

Ummmmmm you had better talk him into a bigger daypack like a T1 and out of his current daypack that doesn't have enough room

the good thing is I know his pack will hold 7days of food and a sleepin bag pretty easy, I've put more into it with the aid of the duffle

I think David was talking about my old Superday, not the BW.. I don't think we'll need 7 days in our packs but perhaps on one of our early adventures into area XXX, we could drop some provisions and a shelter depending on weather forecast. Was pretty warm last year so if temps are the same this year, just a couple of light sleeping bag liners could probably get us through the night if we're too waxed to head back to the iron horses .. Come on September!

[Swede]

I have not posted on this thread before, because I got the first good bull that came within shooting distance. Some have posted things we all struggle with too. Two areas I would like to do better at are choosing where to set and wait for the elk. The other thing to improve on is where and when to place our trail cameras.
When I am waiting, hunting at one location, and nothing is happening, I get the feeling I should have gone to a different location. Sometimes the evidence on the ground proves I was waiting at the wrong place. Part of the process of picking a stand to wait in, is based on what the trail cameras have shown. We leave our cameras out for over a month in a heavily hunted area, so we are selective in where we leave them. That limits our knowledge. Another issue over an extended time period is battery life. I believe, in the future I can do better at the timing and setup of our cameras, so I will know more about how frequently a water hole is getting hit and what is coming in at the opening of the archery elk season.