Experience Needed

[GoGriz1234]

I headed out for the opener of rifle season in south west Montana (bighole valley) and I am leaving with more questions than answers. I was camped up at 8,400' and as luck would have it we got fresh snow the night before the first day. Opening day I cut tracks and followed them for a few hours (the tracks read around 5-8 cows and I had a cow tag = looking good so far). I finally caught up with them and got a visual at 50 feet on the side of a heavily wooded mountainside. About 20 mins after a visual the snow ran out and my easy tracking became much more difficult and I lost the trail. I spent the next day and a half re-tracing all of the tracks and it seems that someone drove the elk down through the escape route where I first cut their tracks (I put this together following the elk and human tracks on the top of the mountain, which lead right to where I cut the tracks at the chute that lead from the top of the mountain down to the mid-valley entrance). The elk seemed to be headed down the valley towards the private lands, but it's hard to tell where they went. I didn't cut any other tracks in 14 miles of hiking all over the place, which also seemed weird. The part that confuses me the most is that while in my way out of the unit, after dropping 2,000 feet in elevation, the majority of camps were setup at this lower elevation and some camps were displaying their elk kills. So I guess my questions are: 1) is it usual for elk to be spread across a 2,000 foot elevation difference is a unit? 2) once elk are chased off the mountain tops, do they usually run for private land, or do they head to their hiding place (I know this is likely location specific, but I am told that many elk in this unit end up on private land on the valley floor). 3) I will be heading back to this unit in one month for a final hunt, should I stay in the lowlands at the lower elevation or should I press right up against the mid snow line and look for the hold outs that are trying to avoid the month long pressure.

I have spent a good amount of time scouting this unit and would like to spend even more time learning it's ins and outs, but it seems like there is some local knowledge that I am missing out on and it makes me question my future plans for this unit and how I am going about things.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again to this site and all the people who contribute, I have learned more than I can ever repay - you guys rock!

[Lefty]

Every area is different Ive hunted an area of Deseret plain; 400 square miles and less than 1000 feet of elevation. those elk would travel 10-25 mile each way in a night of feeding
Last Saturday my daughter and I were in some of the steepest country that holds vegetation. 1500 feet of elevation per mile.
My daughter crossed fresh tracks from a herd 2500 lower in elevation and three miles from where I cut the tracks 9000 and likely those elk crossed a valley at 6000.
The unit we hunted elk in this year the elk will feed on the desert floor, pasture and fields then travel 2-3000 foot elevation gain daily

Ive hunted SW Montana. In Sept and October the elk will be from the bottom to the top. As the season progresses the elk are chased down buy deep snow. Cows will head down sooner than big bulls. Ive seen bulls push through 4 feet of snow

[Wyo67]

1) Nothing unusual about the elevation changes in my opinion. I don't think 2K feet elevation difference is a factor. Seems like elk can cover 2K in elevation change like we can go up an escalator. Our prime area is the top of a hillside that peaks out at just below 10K and drops to the bottom (private to the north, east and west) to 7800' within 3 miles either way. We find (or hear) elk at all elevations during September. I can't say what they do during gun season as I know it gets a ton of pressure during rifle season and I avoid it. From what I've heard, they do head off into the several square miles of private around our hunting area.
2) I believe elk will head towards their secure hiding place no matter whether it's public or private once they hear the bang sticks start going off. They will still need to have food, water and shelter. If they can find that without being pressured by hunters, then that's most likely where they will go.
3) A lot of variables that make that difficult to answer. Depends on weather (has there been enough snow to push them down) and where they are getting hunting pressure.

Sounds like you were doing a lot of hiking and chasing the original 5-8 cows. I'd bet that there are several more small herds of elk in that area. If possible, I'd look for a place to glass the private on the valley floor at first and last light. They should still come out to feed, especially if they are unpressured on private and see if you can figure out where they are heading up into their hiding holes - hopefully where you can get to them.

Good luck.

[Swede]

Don't hunt where elk were. I prefer to drop down below the deep snow and near the snow line if possible. There may be stragglers above, but I would go where the bulk of the elk are, if you can. I need to work on this too, but where I hunt the elk cross the fence onto posted private land. Stringunner has been pretty good in the past at ambushing them along their escape route. The guys I hunted with this year did well too. When the elk are pressured out of the area, or they drop down due to deep snow, you need to move too.

[Osprey]

I only have experience Elk hunting in Rifle seasons in CO and I can tell you first hand 2000 ft difference is not uncommon and its not uncommon to see them in both areas as well. Actually its not unusual in my main area to hunt 2-3 k ft elevation difference in the same day when searching and come across cows spikes small bulls low and less Elk but more mature bulls up high in 12"+ snow. I've generally found that if the only roads are in the valleys generally the older mature bulls will hang up high much longer than cows and small bulls so you may be on much less elk but better chance at mature bulls however theres exceptions to every rule in elk hunting especially around safe havens such as private, limited entry units near your unit etc. If hunting cows and the snow is 10"+ i've seen quiet a few at or just below snow line especially seeing good movement the first few days after a good snow. Next time you see a few successful hunters don't hesitate to start a conversation and just talk general elk hunting you will be really suprised sometimes at how much you can learn about an areas local knowledge just by talking to a few folks I wouldn't start out asking questions but it you show you area giving a hard effort with tough luck and are nice you may be thrown a bone. I've learned a little local knowledge on almost evey hunt I've been on by talking with locals.

[Osprey]

Also make a note of where and how you saw those cows you were following using the area on a topo map and any other sign you saw. Something may stick out that you might not have realized such as a good ambush spot for future hunts.

[Indian Summer]

The Bighole is um.... big. The elk do different things depending on where you are. On the west side they will go up over the top and into Idaho when pressure is on from the Montana side. If you are anywhere near the Anaconda Pintlar Wilderness my guess is that their location is dictated as much by weather as it is by pressure. If you happen to be near wolves then who knows... they could be gone tomorrow or showing up tomorrow depending on the current location of the wolves.

You mention hold outs. You also mention elk "running for private ground". There will always be elk that are accustomed to spending some time on private land. Especially the cows and their calves who are only concerned about one thing. There are definitely elk including some bigger bulls that will never go there. Forget about the private land aspect. Hunt the mountains. If I were you and going back late I'd be prepared to hunt up high and deal with some snow to my knees or even higher. One thing is for sure that elk will move to lower ground and before that all of them will stage in places where they might have to dig a little for food but they can do it without getting shot. That stuff is handed down through generations and is something you can count on. Yes that means work. Which is the best way to get your paycheck. Simple formula that holds true with most things in life right. If you have a snowmobile to get to where others can't it could really come in handy. I love Thanksgiving week in that whole area from Dillon up through the Bighole and Bitterroot. Things are happening! Good luck.

Oh and the locals camp low lots of times. They will still hunt up high but they don't have to worry about relocating camp when the roads get shaky up top. Don't second guess where you're hunting because of those camps.

[Swede]

I understand I.S. is writing from experience for a specific local area that I know nothing about. Still I think there is a broader general principle that we can discuss. I have worked five National Forests in Oregon and Washington for 35 years, plus living and hunting there. I don't want to close the subject, but just state the basis for my observations.

You can have elk stragglers and holdouts in the high country until the snow get about three feet deep. Eventually the snow drives out even the most reclusive bull, or he finds a niche to live in.
A wind swept ridge or south facing slope can hold elk late, where everything else is only suited to snowshoe rabbits.
You can drive over plowed roads, or go on snow machines for miles (more than 14) without cutting a single track when the snow gets deep. "Deep snow" is variable depending on condition, but start thinking about it as the depth reaches two feet. Crusted and hard snow is different than light fluffy snow. Predators can be devastating when the snow is hard, as they can stay on top while deer and elk break through.
You can find elk congregated in deep snow areas where timber cutting is bringing down fresh forage (moss) daily. The elk will even wait for the loggers to leave the site, then move back in. Usually there are new skid trails in these logging areas where the elk can travel easier.

Maybe others have seen different things or can build on what I have here. These are things you may find helpful as you consider hunting snow country.

[RAMMONT]

I live a couple hours almost due north of the Big Hole and I can say that most of our elk will move to more secure areas when you push them, most often that's downhill because you'll usually find them about 3/4 of the way up a mountain face and going up would put them in to open grass, going down usually puts them in to dark forest with a lot of blow downs. We only have an elevation change of around 1500 feet around here but the elk can be found at just about any point along that whole range depending on hunting pressure and time of day.

[GoGriz1234]

Thanks everyone for the replies and the wisdom. After a day or two of being removed from the situation I am able to look back at the situation with more clarity. I think I will take the advice here and hit both the tops of the peaks and the low escape routes onto the private land when I go back in a month and see what I find. You guys continue to be an amazing wealth of knowledge and open to discussing issues that I am sure when I look back on in a few years I will laugh for asking/ writing. Hopefully I will have some photos to post after I head back out to give this story a great ending.

[Swede]

Gogriz: Best wishes. Let us know how things turn out for you and what you learn.

[Indian Summer]

Forget about that private land game. You are talking about tons of competition for pressured elk. Plus the elk usually make their move on to private during the night. Head for the hills!

[Trumkin the Dwarf]

Forget about that private land game. You are talking about tons of competition for pressured elk. Plus the elk usually make their move on to private during the night. Head for the hills!

I'm going to second Indian Summer on this one. Until the snow gets deep AND crunchy, the bulls, especially big ones, tend to stay as high as they can in thick nasty stuff. If you can find STEEP terrain, with nice benches above it, you should find few hunters (if any), and the bulls like to bed in the timbered benches, feeding out onto the open windswept hill sides at night.