Elk Herds

[Swede]

Paul (Elknut) has a thread on Bowsite titled are you bugling enough. We started to discuss what I am describing below. So I will not hijack Paul's discussion, and to also engage all of you, I wanted to start a fresh thread here, and pick up where I left off.

Where I hunt, due to heavy hunting pressure, and I presume, heavy cattle grazing; the elk (estimate 95%) leave the National Forest from miles around. This occurs right at the opening of archery season. I have seen, in different years, well over 100 elk in a single herd heading for the ranch. The elk generally stay on the ranch, where you can see three herds of about 200 each. They remain there until the shooting starts at the opening of rifle season. These large herds will spread out to become smaller sub-herds of 40-60 each. They are all on the ranch. In the late season these herds and sub-herds will have 4 or 5, 260-290 class bulls intermingling together with the cows. Occasionally a small 5-10 elk sized herd will leave the ranch with a scrappy 5X6 or 6X6 bull. Sometimes I, or others can get one.
I have never seen this kind of behavior before. The closest I have come is going by a refuge. In late September I am accustomed to seeing herds of 6-12 elk with a dominant bull, and maybe some satellites. Have you seen what I am witnessing, and why are there several bulls in the open when the rut should be going in full? Is the rut being delayed by pressure? Does pressure from hunters and the cattle competition otherwise change elk behavior?

[saddlesore]

Where I hunt, by 2nd rifle there will be anywhere from 200-600 elk on one private ranch, bulls and cows. I am usually lucky enough to catch young bull scragglers or cows that didn't get the message.They don't come easy though
This smaller bunch had broken off from 300 or so this past year.This was taken one day after close of 2nd rifle in CO.

[Swede]

Saddlesore, I assume the 2nd rifle season in Colorado is well after the rut, so that does not quite fit what I am seeing. But, are they congregating on the ranch to get away from hunters and or cattle, as I believe they are where I hunt?
This discussion is an offshoot of Paul's question about bugling enough. I don't bugle as much as he does, because I believe it is pushing out the elk from the public land. I suspect the elk are adapting to pressure, but I doubt it has changed the rut time. There is too much biology involved to change that over in a few years. When Paul answered my post, I believe he was right about the cows not being in estrus with a bunch of bulls intermingling with them, but why? I am seeing this at what is ordinarily peak rut. Are the bulls that leave the ranch taking the hot cows with them? That seems possible.

[Indian Summer]

My first question would be is there anyone at all that hunts those private properties

[Swede]

Not that I am aware of until the rifle season, then it is limited. I would estimate the ranch property to cover 36,000 acres. There is significant hunting pressure very near to the boundary.

[ElkNut1]

swede, peak rut is represented with the majority of cows from 2-1/2 to 9 years old that will come into estrus from Sept 10 thru Sept 30. These cows cannot control a calendar date when they come into estrus, they come in when they come in! They do not all come into estrus at the same time. Throughout Sept most will be bred. Some on private land some on public land. It's obvious with the hunting pressure in your area that the elk are seeking out a refuge where they are not harassed. This does not mean they do not cross the boundary or fence but they know they are safer in one area over the other. It's this way in all states that have similar private lands surrounded by public lands. These elk know where they are not bothered!

As a sidenote it's the cows leading the bulls to this private land not the other way around. Bugling by hunters have no bearing on messing up rutting times. Real bulls bugling do not push them to private land, these bulls would just follow! Hunters bugling wouldn't either if they weren't busted so many times! (grin) It's the hunting pressure in general that has them relocating to safe ground not just the bugle.

ElkNut1

[Swede]

Thanks Paul. I agree. it is not bugling per se that is the problem. Hunters could even get away with poor bugling, but the problems develop when bugling is accompanied with human scent, or being seen. High road density along with trucks all over, and hunters driving, and hiking all around is actually defeating the hunters that are trying to use these tactics.

[ElkNut1]

swede, this is true! That's why I prefer to be just far enough from such road traffic, my odds go up when I do. I will say though that I still have several areas within a 1/2 mile or so from a road that is just secluded enough that elk will at times be in them. You just never know! (grin) Too, I do not hunt anywhere near where private land exists, the elk that are there will be somewhere I can hunt them, advantage hunter!

ElkNut1