"Interpreting" or "Reading the Encounter"

[Trophyhill]

What does this mean? What goes in to "reading the situation" for you? Is it the urgency or lack of that you are hearing? Is it the amount of elk sounds you are hearing? Is it elk responding to your calls? Are elk responding to particular calls and ignoring other sounds? So lets say you have a bull respond to your call from inside 200 yards. Will this bull come to you? Or is he standing pat? Without having lots of first hand experience, how are you going to "read the encounter" correctly? And for those who do have plenty under your belt, how long before you could "read the encounter" correctly, consistently? I know these questions are broad but each encounter is different. A great elk killer once told me, "not all elk encounters are created equal". It is true. I think reading the encounter correctly has alot to do with reading the mood of the elk and listening to what the elk are telling you........or not. I still have a lot to learn. Tell us what variables are important to you when "reading the encounter"

[Heartwood]

What is important to me when trying to read an elk encounter/situation: if a bull is vocal i'm first trying to determine herd bull or satalite. If multiple bulls vocal which is the herd bull. Are these vocal bulls acting as if there is a hot cow? Are there cows present at all. What is the overall mood and intensity of the vocalizations. If a bull responds to my call within 200 yards, I'm going to first get away from where I called from and most likley advance closer to the bull w/o saying anything. I also automaticly check the wind and act accordingly. Other factors are, what did this bull just say? Is he chuckling or grunting, screaming or just saying i'm over here. Is he talking to his cows or responding to my bugle or cow call. Lots to think about for sure. Personally, I'm at a stage where I don't always read a situation right but many times I do. Somtimes I just know what to do right away. Somtimes I have to just listen for a while to tell what is going on.

[otcWill]

Good question. I'm far less concerned with what noises a bull is making and how often than I am with things like terrain, wind, time of day, where are they going, how far are they from their bedding area, what time of year is it, how many elk are there? All these factors will help me decide: "Can I get this done RIGHT NOW" or am I better off waiting for a situation with higher odds later in the day or tmro? As for what type of noise they are making, this can certainly play in to how aggressive I'll plan on getting with my calls. That is, IF I call at all. My first option is always to attempt to kill the bull without letting him know I'm there. The other thing to note is that if they aren't all that wound up, you can change that pretty quick with your calling sequence. I'll try to expand on this a bit later as I've got to head to work now. Hope this helps!

[Toby]

Excellent question, I look forward to all responses, so much to learn. As in most situation, I believe that there is more than one right way to be successful at something. In my early years I tried to call every bugling bull to me, had a lot of fun, but not much success. Now I approach most situation as otcWill suggests, trying to get to a bull without him knowing is my first option. As I approach, I am trying to interpret what is going on with the bull. This of course works if the bull stays vocal. If not, I usually try to get a response with some sexy cow calls. I usually start with the least threatening call and escalate if the situation dictates.if the bull gets cranked up as I get closer, I usually get more aggressive with my calling.

[Tigger]

Great thread! As newcomer to the calling game, this really has my attention. One of the things I am worried about is scaring him off. I can just see me deciding to throw out a location bugle and getting an answer from a bull who then gathers his cows and heads to the neighboring state. is this a likely scenario? My plan if I get an answer to a location bugle is to, like others said, close the distance asap to the bull. Once I get as close as I dare, use cow calls. If I get no answer from the cow calls, that is where as a rookie, I am going to be stumped. How do you read that situation? I guess after a time, you throw out another location bugle to see if he answers, eh?

Where I am going there will be other hunters, so I am guessing I may not hear a lot of bugling. how does a guy read those situations when they are not bugling much?

[twinkieman]

My first concern, as I am trying to figure out the encounter is the wind. What time of the day is it, for a couple of reasons, are the thermals about to change, is this vocal bull on his way to his bedding area. Since I know that every time this bull bugles, he is calling me to him, I will listen, and I have to make a decision, herd bull or satellite. Cows, or no cows with him. Is he just advertising, and what do I feel the temperature of the bull is. Another factor not listed, What calls did I use to get him to respond. Did I location bugle, cow call, cold calling, etc. If I bugled, what was his response? Did he warn me to stay out, what is he saying now? As I listen is he gathering his cows to leave? If so my reaction needs to be quick. Did this bull respond to a lost cow sound, if so I am staying right where I am, but repositioning, 10 yds one way or the other. Am I hunting solo, or do I have a partner I'm calling for? So many factors to consider, but in the past few years, I can read more and more encounters and make my evaluations fairly quickly. If I do misread an encounter, I'll go back over it until I come to a conclusion of what I think I did wrong, so not to make the same mistake in the future. As Heartwood said, sometimes now, I just react on autopilot, I've had a similar encounter in the past, and I know how to respond, and react accordingly.

[Toby]

Tiger,

Looking back over the encounters I have had, if I had to say what mistakes I made the most was not being aggressive enough. If I am in doubt now, I will choose to be more aggressive. There are a lot of times when you can get a bull all fired up. You can only do this by calling, and that is the really exciting thing about hunting elk.

In a perfect world, I would hear a bull bugle, sneak in on him, and kill him without ever calling. Does that happen, sure it does, but that doesn't always work. So,my advice is to move in on a bull, using wind, terrain, etc. if you can sneak in and get a shot great, if not try some of the calls that Elknut and others suggest.

Are you going to blow a few, sure, but the only way you are going to get better is to try some things. Learn from your failures as well as your success.

Toby

[Huntrgathr]

I couldn't decide whether to post this in this thread or the " 10 most common mistakes " thread but I've kinda boiled down the vast majority of my "learning experiences " to two things. Not properly interpreting a situation and not adapting to that situation. When an opportunity starts to develop, Sometimes it's a very conscious decision making process I go through weighing this option or that option but other times it is a purely instinctive reaction to what's happening. In the rut alot of the focus is on interpreting the vocalisations of elk , which is a fairly logical process, while at other times during the year it's about anticipating elk movements and using strategy without knowing where the elk are- very intuitive. The Playbook is much harder to write for these times. They're very different scenarios. And there are all sorts of areas in between that require hybrid strategies. Knowing when to ( or not to) call, when to charge in, when to let things develop, when to push the envelope, are determined 1/2 by logic and experience and 1/2 by instinct. I feel more engaged in the hunt when I'm trusting my instincts instead of trying to remember what I read somewhere. Putting yourself in the position of the elk, thinking like an elk will lead you to elk more times than not. Pay attention to what's happening around you and your instincts will take over. At least, that theory works for me. For other guys it's something different. Hunt your own hunt and focus on your strengths. Nice thread idea Trophy.

[Trophyhill]

I couldn't decide whether to post this in this thread or the " 10 most common mistakes " thread but I've kinda boiled down the vast majority of my "learning experiences " to two things. Not properly interpreting a situation and not adapting to that situation. When an opportunity starts to develop, Sometimes it's a very conscious decision making process I go through weighing this option or that option but other times it is a purely instinctive reaction to what's happening. In the rut alot of the focus is on interpreting the vocalisations of elk , which is a fairly logical process, while at other times during the year it's about anticipating elk movements and using strategy without knowing where the elk are- very intuitive. The Playbook is much harder to write for these times. They're very different scenarios. And there are all sorts of areas in between that require hybrid strategies. Knowing when to ( or not to) call, when to charge in, when to let things develop, when to push the envelope, are determined 1/2 by logic and experience and 1/2 by instinct. I feel more engaged in the hunt when I'm trusting my instincts instead of trying to remember what I read somewhere. Putting yourself in the position of the elk, thinking like an elk will lead you to elk more times than not. Pay attention to what's happening around you and your instincts will take over. At least, that theory works for me. For other guys it's something different. Hunt your own hunt and focus on your strengths. Nice thread idea Trophy.

You said a lot with just one word.....Experience! This is where we truly learn. We take what we learn from others whether it's on forums, reading books/magazines, conversations etc and merging that information with what we see and hear in the elkwoods. Experience!

Let's take the PlayBook and DVD's that Paul has taken great time and thought to put together for instance. This was all very foreign to me at first. Because I just didn't have any experience to understand what Paul was trying to say. After all this information was from his experience and interactions with elk. Let me say that I'm still not where I need to be with only limited experience but with some great experiences and great mentorship from Paul, Gregg and probably a half dozen others, and armed with information from the PlayBook, North American Elk Ecology and Management and the great information I've picked up on the forums since I started this quest in 2008, recognizing and reading the encounter is starting to click 1 encounter at a time. It's taken mistakes and blowing opportunities to recognize the situation at times too doing things 99% right only to blow it in the end with a stupid mistake or the elk doing what you least expect them to do. Learning when to force the elks hand and letting the situation develop can be tough to learn or at least it has been for me. But this is where experience I think plays a key role. The more you get the more apt you are to make the correct decisions.

The good thing is that if you arm yourself with the information available to us, from the PlayBook and other sources including what the great elk killers on this site are freely sharing with us, the learning curve is cut in half and reading the situation should come quicker for us. Thus converting us from elk hunters to elk killers. The time it takes can depend greatly on our experience and the speed we process information.

Some get 5 years of experience in 1 season while others get......well 1/2 a season worth in 1 year. And what I mean by this is the # of encounters a person has. Put yourself in position to read the situation as often as you can on a given hunt and don't be afraid to make mistakes. If you do this you will start getting it right at some point. The great elk killers I am learning from talk about "autopilot". This kicks in because of "experience" imo. I hope I'm not too far off base here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[foxvalley]

This is a great thread, and really gets to the meat of the situation that you are faced with.You really need to understand what is happening,or being said by the elk,or the sounds you are hearing, to be able to come up with a game plan on how to go about killing him. The best case sinario would be just to sneak in and get close enough to kill him without ever letting any of the animals know you are there.There is a big difference between a bull that is just bugling, and a bull that is really angry.The angry bulls already have there dander up, and seem much easier to get to come in by calling, or....... a more subtle aproach,is raking,or even snapping a branch. The bull that is "just bugling up to his bed" is slow to anger,and has no reason to come to your calling,untill he gets to his bed. Now is a good time to to try and get him mad, if you can't sneek in on him,but this could take a long time,or may just a few seconds,but you have to try and get him mad, before he "throws a punch".
The biggest issue with calling, is he will have you pinpointed within an inch at a hundred yards,and will be looking for you.This is where I have saved a lot of bulls lives by being seen by him, or his cow,by not getting down enough, and still having the "upright human position". Getting down on all fours is the way i'm playing it this year as I get to within a hundred,and I think is a close second to having the wind in your favor.Let him see the brush move as you move in on him,this is not a threat,or the sounds you make doing it,but don't let him see anything that resembles an "upright figure"

[Ironman]

Wow, I just joined this forum. I was referred here by a new friend. I'm so glad I signed up you guys are great and have tons of advice.
I have been hunting archery for over 25 years and have harvested moose, black bear, turkey, grouse and more white tail then I can count. but being the only
serious bow hunter I know I never really had any success with elk. Now I have had a few "encounters" But I can never close the distance to get a clean ethical shoot.
and I think I've called in more hunters then anyone . Boy do I have some great stories to tell about that.... . I just wanted to say thanks for sharing. guys like me need all the help we can get..

[Trophyhill]

Wow, I just joined this forum. I was referred here by a new friend. I'm so glad I signed up you guys are great and have tons of advice.
I have been hunting archery for over 25 years and have harvested moose, black bear, turkey, grouse and more white tail then I can count. but being the only
serious bow hunter I know I never really had any success with elk. Now I have had a few "encounters" But I can never close the distance to get a clean ethical shoot.
and I think I've called in more hunters then anyone . Boy do I have some great stories to tell about that.... . I just wanted to say thanks for sharing. guys like me need all the help we can get..

Welcome to the forum Ironman! If these guys can helo me on my quest, you shouldn't have any issue

[Tigger]

Ironman,
I really want to hear some of those stories! Sounds like a great new thread....I will start it!

[Huntrgathr]

I couldn't decide whether to post this in this thread or the " 10 most common mistakes " thread but I've kinda boiled down the vast majority of my "learning experiences " to two things. Not properly interpreting a situation and not adapting to that situation. When an opportunity starts to develop, Sometimes it's a very conscious decision making process I go through weighing this option or that option but other times it is a purely instinctive reaction to what's happening. In the rut alot of the focus is on interpreting the vocalisations of elk , which is a fairly logical process, while at other times during the year it's about anticipating elk movements and using strategy without knowing where the elk are- very intuitive. The Playbook is much harder to write for these times. They're very different scenarios. And there are all sorts of areas in between that require hybrid strategies. Knowing when to ( or not to) call, when to charge in, when to let things develop, when to push the envelope, are determined 1/2 by logic and experience and 1/2 by instinct. I feel more engaged in the hunt when I'm trusting my instincts instead of trying to remember what I read somewhere. Putting yourself in the position of the elk, thinking like an elk will lead you to elk more times than not. Pay attention to what's happening around you and your instincts will take over. At least, that theory works for me. For other guys it's something different. Hunt your own hunt and focus on your strengths. Nice thread idea Trophy.

You said a lot with just one word.....Experience! This is where we truly learn. We take what we learn from others whether it's on forums, reading books/magazines, conversations etc and merging that information with what we see and hear in the elkwoods. Experience!

Let's take the PlayBook and DVD's that Paul has taken great time and thought to put together for instance. This was all very foreign to me at first. Because I just didn't have any experience to understand what Paul was trying to say. After all this information was from his experience and interactions with elk. Let me say that I'm still not where I need to be with only limited experience but with some great experiences and great mentorship from Paul, Gregg and probably a half dozen others, and armed with information from the PlayBook, North American Elk Ecology and Management and the great information I've picked up on the forums since I started this quest in 2008, recognizing and reading the encounter is starting to click 1 encounter at a time. It's taken mistakes and blowing opportunities to recognize the situation at times too doing things 99% right only to blow it in the end with a stupid mistake or the elk doing what you least expect them to do. Learning when to force the elks hand and letting the situation develop can be tough to learn or at least it has been for me. But this is where experience I think plays a key role. The more you get the more apt you are to make the correct decisions.

The good thing is that if you arm yourself with the information available to us, from the PlayBook and other sources including what the great elk killers on this site are freely sharing with us, the learning curve is cut in half and reading the situation should come quicker for us. Thus converting us from elk hunters to elk killers. The time it takes can depend greatly on our experience and the speed we process information.

Some get 5 years of experience in 1 season while others get......well 1/2 a season worth in 1 year. And what I mean by this is the # of encounters a person has. Put yourself in position to read the situation as often as you can on a given hunt and don't be afraid to make mistakes. If you do this you will start getting it right at some point. The great elk killers I am learning from talk about "autopilot". This kicks in because of "experience" imo. I hope I'm not too far off base here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

It may have sounded like I was minimizing the effectiveness and value of the information that is available here and elsewhere. That's not the case at all. When I made the Playbook comparison I was saying that I consider calling scenarios more predictable and "readable" than hunting bulls in say, November or even pre-rut when they're just not talking...

It's two very different hunting environments with totally different sets of adaptations you need to make to be successful. In both cases,I think adaptability is probably the biggest success driver. But in rut, calling is almost everything. You're either stalking elk that are calling or your calling them to you.

If the hunting conditions when you show up are not as expected you either adapt or fail. In that adaptation phase sometimes you have to forget what you know for a while and and focus entirely on reading sign, covering country, and finding the pattern that you interpret along the way. How many times have you heard hunters exclaim " there's no elk there " when you know firsthand there's elk all over in that country. Or how about places you've driven past a hundred times unknowingly where there was a real honey hole in country where you thought elk would never be...? The only reason for this is we tell ourselves " elk only live in dark timber" or " you gotta go 10 miles in" . If you you get rigid ideas about where elk do and don't live it limits your ability to actually see where elk are. I think the point I'm trying to make is that experience is of paramount importance but more often than one might think, it helps to just go with your gut.