Reasons For Choosing Bugling Over Cow Calling!

[ElkNut1]

There are many reasons for this but bottom line is it attracts more responses from elk! Cows & Bulls a like can respond to Bugling from close range to great distances. This is our preferred sound choice! We contact countless elk every year through bugling but this cannot be said for cow calling exclusively. Yes, we do cow call when a situation requires it but they are few in comparison to bugling or bull sounds! Both are "timing" sounds but the Bugle wins out nearly everyday of our hunts. We hunt OTC Public Lands like most here & this is still the preferred method for contact.

Many hunters get the wrong impression for the purpose of Bugling? In most cases it is to locate or find elk, not call them to you in this contact stage! Once contacted we listen for their response & decide whether he's aggressive or passive, the aggressive bulls can be called in much easier once the distance is closed. The passive bulls generally mean no cows are in or nearing estrus in that area so you have to play the "curiosity" card over the aggressive calling card! Threatening elk in the "passive" stage will net you little in most cases.

What has been some of your experiences in bugling & or cow calling or are there any questions on thoughts ones may have that they experienced in past elk hunts?

ElkNut1

[Rizzy]

What are the tip offs on whether a bull is passive or aggressive?

By the end of this years season I was a big fan of Bugling over cow calling. Bugling produced more consistent results throughout the season. In hindsight the whole time I was out in the field I only ever heard a cow call maybe once, whereas bulls where bugling all the time. In general Bugling fits in with the season a lot more, that's what they are expecting to hear most often. When I go out in the spring to scout, I hear a lot of cow talk but no bugles.

[twinkieman]

Here is one (of many) examples from our 2014 season, that I believe Elknut is talking about.
Out early, calling for two shooters, an hour before sunrise, listening for elk bugling. Nothing talking, total silence. At daylight, I begin with a couple of location bugles with about 45 seconds between my bugles, again nothing. I am convinced that there is a bull in hearing range. We move about 200 yds further, and I go into an advertising sequence for 20 full minutes, still nothing. I have one of the shooters bugle, mimicking my bugles, we added a second bull into the advertising sequence. 400 yds. away a bull responds, I keep bugling, and he continues to respond. Then we hear cows, I give a lipbawl bugle, and he goes nuts. I continue, and cows appear followed by the bull, a respectable 5 point. I would like to say we added him to the meatpole, but he was missed.

I don't believe any amount of cow calls would have gotten a response, it took bugling, and lots of it, to illicit a response.

Our group used our bugles more often this season, and we were rewarded with more responses, and bulls called into archery range, thanks to Elknut's new DVD. I also got audio of an Elknut seminar, all of which was imformative, but one thing Paul said stuck with me more than anything else. Paul was asked which call he used most often. His response waif he could only use 1 call, it would be a bugle.

[ishy]

I'm more of a bugle guy but for discussion sake when I hunt in a the group I sometimes get to go with they are strickly cow callers. They may bugle 10% of the time just to locate, but when they set up to call on in it's all cow calls. They are one of the more successful groups I know. This year 3 of 4 with the 4th getting multiple shots and just couldn't close the deal. Wich is typical of the group. It's a rare year if everyone doesn't get multiple opportunities. One thing is they are hitting the prerut (early september) for the most part, and are targeting bulls before they are herded up.

[Bow4me]

Keep these coming. This is definitely what I'm struggling with. This year I had a bull answering to bugles but I couldn't get him to come in no matter what I did.

[ElkNut1]

Rizzy, the tip offs are the intensity & frequency of an aggressive response where as a lazy type responding bugle along with very few of them are what alerts us as how to work this bull. The aggressive bull will get our attention very quickly as we move in on him as quick as possible, these situations vary according to distance & terrain to get to them, once there we will Advertise our self in a persistent coarse manner, this Advertising right in their face can really get quick reactions from the bull whether he has cows or not, we prefer the ones with cows though! (grin)

The passive bulls response allows us a softer cushion to go their way, time is not of the essence on these bulls as they most likely will stay put unless pressured needlessly. That is a big mistake by many hunters in an improper "read of a situation" You must choose your attack & sounds wisely to give yourself the best odds of an close encounter! Bull sounds still are our dominant use with these bulls as well, this doesn't mean a cow call wouldn't suffice but bull sounds generally pull bulls in first over cows! A more relaxed advertising sequence within 150yds of this "lazy" bull can be dynamite when exercising the needed patience by holding tight for a minimum 30 minutes to give him ample time to check out this new bull in the area. At times multiple bills show as they slip in quietly! You must stay alert as those beasts can slip in as silent as a church mouse! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Duck-Slayer]

This year has been probably the best year I have had for bugling bulls into close range..... I bugled in 4 bulls, I could have killed all 4 of them, but settled on the 3rd bull..... I cow called in a spike that I shot and a small 280 6 point for a friend, so as ElkNut said its all about situation, this is my 4th year of serious elk hunting and I have learned alot from just being out in the woods and paying attention too what's going on around you and especially how the elk are reacting too calls.... which depends alot on the time of year and the hunting pressure, I hunt all Public land so some years there are more people than other's, this year there was a decent number but non willing too get off the trail, last year there was alot more people in the area and the bulls were rather call shy per say, and 3 years ago they got hammered and we didn't here a bugle after the night before the opener.... but now I have refined my calling techniques and learned the area very well, which are 2 essential things too consistently getting on elk.... so it verys from year too year in my area weather or not too bugle or cow call......
Matt

[easeup]

Many hunters get the wrong impression for the purpose of Bugling? In most cases it is to locate or find elk, not call them to you in this contact stage! Once contacted we listen for their response & decide whether he's aggressive or passive, the aggressive bulls can be called in much easier once the distance is closed. The passive bulls generally mean no cows are in or nearing estrus in that area so you have to play the "curiosity" card over the aggressive calling card! Threatening elk in the "passive" stage will net you little in most cases.
ElkNut1

great thread Paul.......sometimes in the hunting and calling discussions this point gets overlooked.

[Mav]

This is something I will be putting into play more this year. Last season was my first elk tag. Multiple friends suggested cow calling almost exclusively. Few times did this present results.

As bow4me said, this year I had a bull answering to bugles very aggressively. However, he would not move! Later investigation proved that he was on a wallow.

Elknut, you mention closing the distance. Is there a certain distance to be within that seems to get them going more? Or is it just being close enough to appear as a challenge?

As I said this was my first elk tag and oh what an experience!!! (And eye opening to the vast amount of knowledge I need to gain!)

[msd1228]

Is there a certain distance to be within that seems to get them going more? Or is it just being close enough to appear as a challenge?

Less than 100 yards, and even closer if you can get there without getting busted.

[Ghost]

Very Very informative thread!!

[Brendan]

This year was my first year Elk hunting, and I had an absolute blast with my bugles. Vice versa - my cow calling was marginal and I was tentative, need a lot of practice. I actually found the higher airflow of the bugle easier. Here are some of my encounters:

Closed in on a bugling / chuckling herd bull, and found myself almost in the herd. They started to spook and move off - a challenge scream turned the bull and had him come back towards me, probably to ward off this hoarse sounding challenger. Too open and no shot.

Again, closed under a 100 yards on what I think was the same bull and his herd later that day. A challenge scream had him coming towards me and thrashing a pine tree down to kindling. No shot - fairly open lodgepole pine.

Spent 2.5 hours going back and forth with a 6x6 herd bull - again, maybe the same one. I'd scream - he'd challenge me and start raking a tree, but I'd be pinned. He'd move off with his cows - I'd scream more and he'd come back screaming and looking for me. Got into heavy cover and I had him come into sub 15 yards twice - but never step into a lane. He'd start to spook and run, I'd scream, he'd stop and come back. Eventually he figured something wasn't right, but incredibly exhilarating as a rookie.

On the last morning - heard a lone bugle from a half mile away down a valley below me. I answer back. A minute later, he bugles again, I answer back. A little while later - he bugles again and I can tell he's looking for me. I shut up and don't answer. He bugles again and I give an answer. See him swinging below me 100-200 yards off, he tries to swing around behind me, but ultimately steps over a small knoll looking for me from 20 yards out. Dead bull that I called in, and I couldn't have been more proud.

So, my cow calling needs more work, but I can attest that bugling works, even for a beginner, in the right scenarios. I had scenarios where I used the scream to challenge the herd bull, and saw results. And then, the one that ended up closing the deal was a location bugle that ended up drawing in that solo 5x5 from a distance that a cow call would have never worked.

Ok, my knowledge on the subject is done. Now it's time for me to go back to learning from this group - too much to improve on for next year!