Map Scouting #1

[WapitiTalk1]

We haven't done any of these in a while. For this exercise, these maps (topo and satellite are for the same area) show a wilderness area somebody has told you about. There are elk here, but where? The USFS trail you see at the north of the map is only one trail. It starts from a point to the west of the "3" quad about 1/2 mile (originating from a main, recreation hiking trail) and runs to the east, splits, and makes a large loop back to the beginning. There is also a pretty good game trail starting to the SW of quad "15". This game trail can also be accessed from the main recreation hiking trail to the west (same one that intersects with the USFS trail at top of map), perhaps, 1/2 mile from where you see it pass below the two headwater ponds. There is no significant private land bordering the wilderness area, just national forest land for many miles. After consulting with the region biologist, and, USFS Ranger District, you've determined that this area does not get much pressure due it being so steep and somewhat remote. Hunters that do frequent the area mostly hunt the surrounding NF land and seldom venture into the heart of the wilderness area.


What do you see as Points of Interest (POI) spots on these maps for a potential September archery elk hunt?


Reminder that if you save the map(s) to your desktop and open in MS Paint, you'll be able to mark them up with your "POI"s before you save it back to a jpg and add the marked up map(s) with your post.

[WapitiTalk1]

Anyone wanna take a poke?

[OS hunter]

I'd definitely be checking out the area around the ponds. I'd also bring my fork and knife, so when I killed a big bull I could just camp out and eat it there. Skip the packing part.

[BrentLaBere]

I had to reduce the size after editing to re post the pictures.

Right away the areas of block 13 and 14 stand out to me with South facing slopes and open country side. This looks to be a possible feeding area to me. Looking at the areal and topo, there could be a high saddle connecting the feeding to bedding areas here. A couple nice high country benches with water being plentiful up top makes me think the elk will be bedding close by.
Blocks 1 2 and 3, looks to me like they would also hold some really nice, lush green, night time feeding areas. Now, where do they go when they need a good nap? I should have taken a few marks away but I decided to leave them because this is all theory. Elk bed (typically into the wind) where the thermals are to there advantage? I would guess with steep country and cool mornings. The thermals will follow those deep cut out areas where there seems to be so much water. The will typically head up the nearest one. Which one? I guess this is where on foot scouting needs to occur. But bedding areas are typically going to be 2/3 to 3/4 the way up the slope (from the bottom of the basin). And these will typically be north or east facing slopes. So the areas in 10, 11 and 12 jumped out at me right away. Another sleeper area could be in square #2. Why? Well it has 3 good streams coming down with two nice cut back areas that could be facing E NE giving good shade through mid day and also offering a drink near by. Nice flat ground to boot. You can almost see an are in the middle ridge of #2 where there is a 'v' pointing up hill. This could be an intermittent stream not showing on the map. Look for the subtle areas for water. This area seems to had plenty but it is something to always note.
Now, why the 'x' marks on the topo? This is your first map you need to look at. and confirm these areas my looking at areal shots and GE....next step is boot leather.
But I say these 'x' areas because Joe, Indian Summer, took map reading for me to the next level. I am confident in finding elk in country like this because of knowing why, and where, to put that 'x' down on paper.
Few things I noticed having my coffee this morning. I will be curious to check back in on what others think. Now time to get to work

[Wyo67]

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I think Brett pretty much nailed it. Looking at the satellite view, it may be difficult to find a good place to get on top and glass into to the bottom feeding grounds. So if I were an out-of-stater and unable to put boots on the ground until hunting season, I've added the orange stars as to places I would want consider being at first light - at least while the thermals are still headed down to try and cut them off headed towards the suspected bedding areas. (Thanks in advance for letting plagiarize Brett...) The area looks a little steep, but it tops out at only around 6300', so should be doable...

Mike

[easeup]

good job Brent and Wyo. I am right there with you for all of the right reasons.

I also see a little place there just west of the red #14, which has a little potential water seep and a nearby bench and cuts.
and the nice thing I see with all of the spots you have selected is there is trail access to the area so you can get in while it is still dark.

yes sir there is nothing gentle and flat in that area.

[WapitiTalk1]

Nice observations gentlemen. I like the way you guys think. N/NE slopes are more often than not money during the wapiti rut. Steep headwater seeps, perhaps close to bedding areas, may certainly have some lucrative, high country wallows that could reap benefits and warrant attention. Now, where do you think you may camp in this area for a 7+ day back country stay? How about nighttime "location" bugle points? Thanks for playing along.

[nippip]

Wow, this is great stuff. Where would you recommend I learn more about map scouting?
I just ordered Elknut's scouting DVD by the way.

[Toby]

Wow, I am very impressed with Brent and Wyo. you are in a different league than I am. I have never been very good at reading map, I am better at picking out spots from satellite images. I would put my efforts where 11, 12, 13, and 14 meet.

[BrentLaBere]

Top right of block # 1 wouldn't be too bad for a camping spot. I say this because of the easy access to the top of the ridge, to the north, with the USFS trail at hand. Good way for you to always find camp and use for ease of hiking in the dark. This could also work to your advantage with the elk being used to traffic somewhat in these areas. No blowing them out of the country.....
Good water source nearby by the looks of it with a possible bench in there for a flat spot to camp out. Thermals could still be going down with the elk, hopefully, feeding above you.

Bottom right of #15. Here you may have to change your morning approach with the thermals and where you can locate elk. But certainly better for locating and less hiking in this location. Good water source with flat ground to camp here. Game trail near by for easy trekking by moonlight as well. By dropping just over the ridge you could send your scent into an off drainage or creek bed where the elk wont catch you. this you could use very well to ones advantage. Also gives me an option of elk coming from the south through the saddle of #14. Keep an out in my plan 'B' area.

Both areas can work and I think you would have to know the area better for spot number 2. Maybe a better scouting spot with more time put behind the glass. #1 would be good if you are playing thermals. Using said trails and cutting them off to their beds. Maybe even use both depending where the elk are bedding.....Tough to say until you get there and until then this is what looks good on the map to me

[Swamp Buck]

Oh... So what you are saying here is that the elk could be ANYWHERE on this map at any time?

I love this discussion and think it helps to add the camp area because this will act as a starting point and gives you an idea of a a starting point and plan of how to attack this area as an out of stater that can not put any real boot scouting in.

Can't wait for more, thanks!

[JPD350]

I would need to see the bigger map picture to truly make a game plan but if I were just plopped in that drainage this is the way I see it.
I would probably start with my camp in the north square #1 by the black spot, when I kill an elk I want to hike the meat down to my camp
The red dots are POI that I would place in my GPS, the red line is my path to each waypoint, if there are elk in the area I will know what they are doing by hiking this loop and then I would adjust accordingly or get the heck out.
I didn't place a trail to the southern POI but I would for sure go past the ponds and check the southern POI, I also would run down the ridge game trail as well before I bailed.

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[Wyo67]

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Top right of block # 1 wouldn't be too bad for a camping spot. I say this because of the easy access to the top of the ridge, to the north, with the USFS trail at hand. Good way for you to always find camp and use for ease of hiking in the dark. This could also work to your advantage with the elk being used to traffic somewhat in these areas. No blowing them out of the country.....
Good water source nearby by the looks of it with a possible bench in there for a flat spot to camp out. Thermals could still be going down with the elk, hopefully, feeding above you.

Bottom right of #15. Here you may have to change your morning approach with the thermals and where you can locate elk. But certainly better for locating and less hiking in this location. Good water source with flat ground to camp here. Game trail near by for easy trekking by moonlight as well. By dropping just over the ridge you could send your scent into an off drainage or creek bed where the elk wont catch you. this you could use very well to ones advantage. Also gives me an option of elk coming from the south through the saddle of #14. Keep an out in my plan 'B' area.

Both areas can work and I think you would have to know the area better for spot number 2. Maybe a better scouting spot with more time put behind the glass. #1 would be good if you are playing thermals. Using said trails and cutting them off to their beds. Maybe even use both depending where the elk are bedding.....Tough to say until you get there and until then this is what looks good on the map to me

Agree... I would also start in block 1 (black star) due to the proximity of the trail and all of the associated benefits Brent talked about. It would be awfully tempting to go to the other side in block 15 (black star). Would like to see another 1/2 mile or so to the west of that block to what other camping areas would be available, and would have to pay close attention to the prevailing winds and thermals before settling on a spot. So far as night bugling, depending on what side of the map I'm camping on, I'd bugle from the red stars. Would love to hear a response coming from that bowl shaped area in blocks 11 and 12. Same goes for that east/west running draw in blocks 13 and 14. If they come out early evening to water/feed, looks like good opportunity to call and spot/stalk.

Mike

[Mikeha33]

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I tried to map out 2 plans, based on what I thought was a realistic day trip. I would do the purple trail first, as that terrain intrigues me a little more that the green, (but the elk, I'm sure they have another plan). After being at the drainage at first light, I really want to get to bench that runs North in the middle of block 11, that I think leads into a killer bedding area (circled in blue), with thick timber and plenty of water, I think the elk would head in their early and stay all day. I also like the lines around my red lightining bolt, if it's been wet, or those streams/springs really produce, that seems like an area that could have major potential, wallows, water, and lush browse. Great spot for cows and calves. I'd also utilize the ridge trail, at least for scouting purposes, and hope for the best, and for a good way to get off that nasty sidehill for a few minutes, until I drop down towards the bowl area, on the edge of 11 & 14, which has a nice gradual slope that some animals may be bedded on. There's a lot of country I want to see here, on both sides of the ridges, but without changing to much elevation, and trying to stay on the same elevation as mid-day elk, I don't think i can get to as much as I need to in a day hunt. I also really like the spot in section 1, directly south of the "1". That looks pretty thick, with a nice bench to it, and would probably be a formidable bedding area. It's quite a hike, but I think you could be there before they get up late afternoon, but I think you'd be back to camp well after dark.

[Lefty]

I put this together without reading the other post ,.. so what is wrong with my thinking
First mornings I walking in on the main trail from sec #15 listening as I walk in At first light Im sitting with a spotting scope near the 6500 foot mark between sections 11 and 14 , listening to what could be happening in the thick timber below me but spotting to the open face on sec # 1,2 and three

I suspect if I dont see anything Ill be sleeping at the 5000 ft mark along sections 11 and twelve expecting to hear some action during the night

come on you experts blast my thinking away

[Lefty]

Yikes JDP and Wyo might get mad stumbling into my camp site
I would lie to see the zoomed in versions of the area ,. I want to know the type of cover and thickness a bit better, seems to be lots of water
I see that the trail is the game trail. I expect every horseman and walker will be coming in on that trail. but it is the first place I would glass from. An hour after sunup I would drop down and move between 4800 and 5400 foot line to get the feel for the country, checking out the water and trails. If Ive covered the ground lower in the morning I would move and stay above 5000 in the afternoon

[archery bum]

.
But I say these 'x' areas because Joe, Indian Summer, took map reading for me to the next level.

Does Indian Summer have a book or DVD out on map reading that I could buy?

[Texasdan]

I love these threads. Keep it coming

[Wyo67]

I put this together without reading the other post ,.. so what is wrong with my thinking
First mornings I walking in on the main trail from sec #15 listening as I walk in At first light Im sitting with a spotting scope near the 6500 foot mark between sections 11 and 14 , listening to what could be happening in the thick timber below me but spotting to the open face on sec # 1,2 and three

I suspect if I dont see anything Ill be sleeping at the 5000 ft mark along sections 11 and twelve expecting to hear some action during the night

come on you experts blast my thinking away

Lefty,

No seeing anything wrong with your thinking... Just a couple of different personal preferences. The initial discussion implied little to no pressure from other hunters in this area, so I used that as a basis for some of my decisions. The layout and timber coverage of the area in this scenario is similar to a "Plan B" area I ended up hunting last year as I was trying to get away from other hunters. I wanted to glass from certain spots, but was unable to due to the timber coverage. That could also be the case here, so I think we'd have to be flexible as to where we would glass from. Also, due to the thermals probably moving down in the morning, if you heard anything in the think timber below, you'd have to take a round-a-bout way to get there to keep the wind off your back. Finally, just another personal preference, but I wouldn't camp where you mentioned. I'd try to stay away from the "bowl" shaped area between the ridges of 11 and 12. Would prefer to be 1/2 mile or so east or west of those ridges to keep any camp or campfire scent out of that area if I could... But then again, I'm not a spike camp kind of guy, so I may be off base there!

Mike

[Indian Summer]

I'll keep it simple. Brent's map probably coincides with my way of thinking.

I'm looking at the 5400-6000 foot elevations. There is a bench at that level everywhere on the map and it is where the heads of all water sources pops up. Period. I don't care which way the slopes face there's always a hidey hole for elk to get out of the sun during the day.