Where did I go wrong?

[ND_Bowhunter]

I did a DIY hunt - over the counter - in Colorado two years ago. I'm really itching to go back this fall. I'm going to give brief explanation of my first elk hunt/trip and would like some advice on the elk sign I found, and the encounters I had. Where I possibly went wrong so I can bring home some meat next time.

We hunted the 13th-17th of sept. with archery. I believe the season closed on the 23rd. There were 4 of us total, and we hunted in pairs because we were all rookies. We drove into the White River Natl. Forest as far as we could, set up camp, and hunted one basin. Every morning we woke to bugling, hiked up to higher elevations and hunted likely spots. I stalked edges of dark timber/aspen, found a couple of fresh wallows and tried sitting on them in the AM and PM also. I wasn't trying for a herd bull. Just a legal elk (either sex tag). We did hunt evenings as well but I don't know if that is good strategy.

I come from bowhunting whitetails in ND. FLAT! land... Never knew what a thermal was but I learned how to play them real fast, it was actually much more obvious how they worked once I was in the Mtns. No previous elk experience. I am used to finding deer sign. Scat, rubs, scrapes, etc. When in the forest for elk I found wallows (old and new), rubs on trees, and even scrapes with piss in them. I did not know elk acted like that. Do they piss on their hocks like a whitey and mark their territory with crapes? I swear I found scrape lines on the top of one saddle I hiked on top of. I cow called two bulls in, one ended up winding me and I know where I went wrong on that one. The other my hunting buddy ended up spooking it off (long fricken story, still mad about that one!)

Anyways...That "scrape line" was in some pretty nasty thick dark timber. Am I too deep into the elks bedding area? Do I want to stay out of the tangled up dark timber completely? It was the only place I could find elk sign, so that is where I hunted. Is it smart to set up on wallows? Some were obviously very fresh, but is it like a whitey where they most often only hit them at night (like a scrape)?

We honestly were surrounded by elk in that basin, but I only ever saw one cow. It was just such thick timber that if you weren't within 20 yds, you wouldn't see them. Definetely no scope or binocs were necessary on this hunt.

What would you guys do differently?

[Still Hunter]

Nothing wrong with hunting the dark timber if you have a lot of still hunting experience. Otherwise you would be better off catching them coming and going from the timber. Were you up on the mountain before daylight?

[>>>---WW---->]

By finding that many rubs in one area, I'd guess you were in what I call a bull hole. This is an area where bachelor groups spend the summer away from the cows with the boys. It also may be considered as a staging area where they are rubbing velvet and just waiting for the cows to come into estrus.

Also you mentioned scrapes. These were most likely beds. Bulls will stand up and pee in the middle of them. Cows pee on the outer fringe of the bed. Also, if the smell was really strong, you probably jumped them without realizing it. When cows are frightened, they will pee before they take off. I'm not sure why but I suspect it is to leave a strong odor in the area and maybe to confuse predators, or hunters into think they are still in the area. Sometimes bulls will paw the ground while they are rubbing. They are big animals and can really tear stuff up. But I wouldn't call it a scrape.

You would do well to find where the cows are hanging out. That is where the bulls will be during the time frame you mentioned. Sounds like they were bugling pretty good. If you were hearing them early in the morning that would be most likely be close to the cows and where you should be hunting. But later on, say 9:00 AM or so, those bugles should be coming from higher up the mountain as they head for their bedding area.

Sounds like you had a fairly good hunt for a first timer. After all, you did get close to a couple of cows. That's better than a lot of first timers do.

[WapitiTalk1]

Welcome to "the" elk forum Ross. Glad to have you on board. Sounds to me like you did pretty darn well on your first elk hunt. You located and hunted an area with multiple vocal bulls; you sucessfully called in a couple with cow talk; you learned to understand and work western thermals to your advantage; you mapped some very nice spots in basin (benches, wallows, bedding areas); and you didn't throw your hunting buddy over a cliff for spooking off one of the bulls Remember, each encounter is different and there are so many variables that are in the elk's favor. You don't win all the battles for sure. Most wallows are active from mid AUG thru early SEP (most). Yes, elk will use wallows throughout SEP, even later, but as the norm, they get minimal use after early/mid SEPT. At any rate, active wallows are great to sit on (ground blind/tree stand). The rubs you saw in abundance were probably mostly velvet rubs which were made several weeks to a month or so before you arrived there. Elk do not scrape the ground in the same manner as whitetail, or, for the same purpose. Yes, they will paw up an area while kicking the snot out of some brush, and, whizz all over tarnation (including on their belly). This is one of the various ways bulls advertise their prowess. Kind of like a body builder flexing their muscles on the beach Like WW mentioned, you may have very well been seeing elk beds.

I'd recommend you dig through the archived tips section of this forums. Lots and lots of good information there. Also, you'll do much better to facilitate discussion and get responses if you narrow down the topic (i.e., Do elk make scrape lines similar to whitetails? Is it a good idea to hunt identified bedding areas?). Do this and your threads will really gain some traction. Lastly, I always recommend new elk hunters pick up some of Elknut's products. For a start, the "Playbook" is invaluable for both new and experienced elk hunters.

Again, welcome!

[cnelk]

Howdy Ross - Welcome!

I would like to hear more about the bugles that you heard in the early morning.
Time? Location from camp?

[elkmtngear]

Ross,
One thing I noticed...you only hunted a total of four days.

Not near long enough for a successful hunt IMHO.

Sometimes it takes four days for me just to figure out where the elk are, and what they are doing.

With the encounters you were having, your odds of success would have been pretty high on a ten day hunt (or more)

[ND_Bowhunter]

Howdy Ross - Welcome!

I would like to hear more about the bugles that you heard in the early morning.
Time? Location from camp?

The bugles we heard were quite a bit before sunrise they started atleast an hour before light and usually ended right at sunrise. We would be up eating breakfast and getting ready and you could hear them screaming. We just tried pinpointing the sound and heading towards it. Our camp was set up in a meadow at 9,000 ft, the mtn peaks were about 10,500 ft. One morning the elk were so close that I had a chance at a bull only 350 yds from camp. We always were up the mtn. before it was light.

I wish we could have hunted longer but I work for farmers back home, and two of the people with me were clients. We just couldn't stay longer than the 5 days we were there.

Also you mentioned scrapes. These were most likely beds. Bulls will stand up and pee in the middle of them. Cows pee on the outer fringe of the bed. Also, if the smell was really strong, you probably jumped them without realizing it

The saddle I found covered in beds was real strong smelling. Very fresh. It was such dark timber that nothing even grew on the forest floor. Just dirt and matted down dead pine needles. I was pretty quite moving through that terrain, but it sounds like I did possibly bump them. Should I even be there in the first place? When hunting whitetails at home I never will go into the best bedding areas. NO matter what.

[Mikeha33]

Ross,
I was actually combing through the archived topics this morning, and came across this one from Paul (ElkNut1), that I found to be right on topic with what you're discussing. I am still new to elk hunting, with the same type of experience as you, whitetails, so I have tons to learn. You have found the absolute hotspot for the best elk info available. Everybody here is extremely helpful, and as they say, the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.
Check out this thread from 2012, it has a ton of useful info in it, from activity to locating, and how to move in after that.

http://www.elknutforums.com/Hunting/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42&p=153#p153

Good luck, and welcome "home"!

[Swede]

Welcome to the forum Ross. I agree with most of what has been written. Rj's point about wallows was good. Sitting at wallows at the time you hunted is not as good as it would be earlier. They are starting to get less use. I never hunt just a wallow. I look for a water hole that had a wallow where a main trail passes by or even better where several trails come together.
Where I disagree with RJ is on his explanation of the string of rub trees. I have seen this string on occasions. Unfortunately I do not see it every year. It has been my experience, that the line of rubs is made by a lone bull I call a "resident". He travels along a certain path daily in dry periods, to water. If you want that boy, follow the line of rubs from where you intersect it, and go to where it ends at the water hole or spring. Do not follow it uphill into his bed room during the day, as you could push him out of the area. Just go and set up a tree stand at the spring and wait. This line of rubs is obviously different to one where many elk go down a draw or ridge to enter or exit a field or the like.

[cnelk]

Sunrise for Sept 13 -17 is approx 6:35am - 6:40am
You can legally shoot at ~6:05am - 6:10am

You may have went wrong by not being up near the elk by no later than 5:30am