Whats the trade-off worth?

[cnelk]

I have read how many people are looking or going to try hunting with someone new.

My question is this...

Would you hunt with a jerk for a week and not be happy in that time even tho you killed a really nice animal?

OR

Would you rather hunt with someone that does things your way, have a good time and you maybe or maybe not harvest an animal?

[I realize there are solo hunters here, so I guess this question would pertain to those that hunt with others]


So whats your time worth?

[JJ Overkill]

we kind of did this this past season. I hunted with trophyhill for the first time. we talked on the phone a lot before season. everything seemed to fit together as far as our expectations go. in fact we added another person neither one of us had meet in person before and that also worked out well. we have made some lasting friendships in the last season thanks to hunting forums.

if things had not worked out im pretty sure I would have pulled the pin on our hunt and moved on relatively fast.

to answer your question if I was miserable at all I would leave before the week was over. I enjoy hunting and I wont let anyone ruin my limited time of hunting.

[bnsafe]

definitely someone you get along with. its not the kill, but the experience.

[Willie makit]

No way would I go with someone or even a group with a known jerk just to kill something, don't care if its in the best place and time to kill a world record. One person can ruin it for all.

On the flip side I've got no desire to drive 1/2 way across anywhere to spend a week with anyone that is the life of the party and who is "hunting" just to stay hammered and get away from the wife.

Fortunately for me my job allows me a lot of off time with no personal attachment. I outlast 99% of my fellow blue collar workers, add to that a very understanding wife and I know I'm blessed.

It makes me both inspired and jealous each time I watch my "30 days" DVD. I'd give my left knut and trigger finger to be in a group like that, or at least like they portray. I've never like crowds and would be miserable even at those "hunting lodges" like you see on TV. If you skip the BS and pay attention to the background, some look like freakin high school cafeterias. No thanks.

[G Posik]

If I was on a group hunt and did not enjoy the company of some I would not hunt with them. I have fun while in the mountains because I only get a very limited amour of time there. The group I hunt with is a pleasure to be around. The kill if an animal is a bonus, the lasting memories of good friends is special. I have made some life long friends from hunting forums. These are people I will do anything for. If they need me to drive across the country then I will. So if not having a great time go somewhere else.

Glenn

[ElkNut1]

Brad, would you please define what's a "jerk" in camp? Doesn't pitch in, a drunk, etc.?

ElkNut1

[JGH]

One of the main reasons I finally broke down and became a "Grown-Up" is to choose my company.

Poor company is a deal-killer for anything.

[Indian Summer]

Hey Paul... define drunk: Mean drunk, happy funny drunk, drinks all your beer drunk? (grin)

"Would you rather hunt with someone that does things your way, have a good time and you maybe or maybe not harvest an animal?"

Hmmm, there's a big difference between a jerk and someone who doesn't do things my way. I don't really care how someone goes about their elk hunt. They can sleep in, starve, stay up late, and have a hunt strategy that makes no sense at all because even though they may be my camping partner I have no problem getting up and hitting it on my own. So as long as they are fun to be around I'm good with that. As long as their way of life has no bearing on my success or enjoyment.

But if they are negative, have no confidence, no sense of humor, and worst of all start talking about leaving early!!!! I'd rather hunt solo for sure.

I have to add that if I was somewhere where there were tons of elk and they were really vocal and active there's not a whole lot that could bring me down. Therefore I could handle a "jerk" for a few days if I knew I was going to kill a nice bull. I'll be the first to admit that I'll take that over a fun camping trip with no darn elk.

My philosophy is that once it's all over and winter is here you'll remember the good times and have meat in the freezer and a rack on the wall. I always say that when people talk about where or what state they plan to hunt. I hear it all the time from easterners "Montana is soooo much further than Colorado. I tell them that the drive should have nothing to do with your hunt plan. No matter where you kill an elk you won't say the drive wasn't worth it. Hard not to have a good hunt if your on bulls! For me anyway. Of course the jerk would never hear from me again!

I'm an elknut not an elklessnut! lol

[cnelk]

Brad, would you please define what's a "jerk" in camp? Doesn't pitch in, a drunk, etc.?

ElkNut1

Everyone has their own description of a 'jerk'
Some people just rub others the wrong way...

This could be someone who is very opinionated, complainer, or someone that just 'stirs the pot'.
It could be someone who is rigid and not open to suggestions.

If someone is a drunk, that will become apparent very quickly and dealing with that condition will be different and swift.

[Indian Summer]

Complainers suck!

You could be at work right!

Wait Brad... we're complaining about complainers!

[ElkNut1]

Brad thanks, just making sure we're all on the same page! (grin)

As far as your choice of offering I'd take the 1st one everytime. Sure I enjoy the camaraderie of friends but when on an elk hunt there's no one going to get under my skin enough to keep me from hunting or enjoying all the hunt has to offer! I say this because I've hunted with a few hundred folks over the years & sure there's always a few that have you shaking your head but so be it. There's just not the perfect group where everyone sees eye to eye all the time, we have to realize that there's probably things we do ourselves that others may not care for but they look past it & put up with us as we put up with them. I do my best to make things work no matter their age or physical limitations, if ones are lazy they can stay in camp if not they'll be right out there with you! (grin)
Bottom line, I'm there to hunt & kill elk not make new friends, we shouldn't allow others to ruin our passion for the hunt no matter what, this isn't just a camping trip! (grin)

ElkNut1

[dreamhunter]

I would rather hunt solo than put up with someone who doesn't show respect to me ,others and them self. I have my pet peaves around camp and most of it is common sense and common courtesy .If you can't abide by that ,well we had a hunt together....once. I don't mind people having a beer or two,I don't think it's a place or time for hard liquor. If your gonna smoke,take it downwind,way downwind so it's not on me,my gear or my tent. If your gonna liter at the camp site,do it in the trash can and not on the ground even though your gonna pick it up later. It's messy and unnecessary. Rant,Rant, Rant. Listen to me. OMG did I really just say what I was thinking.yep,I did. But I would hunt with all of you and just bite my tongue if I had to until I was alone and then I could just sit there and ponder the situation to see if it is/ was that big of a deal.. I could learn so much from any of you and would welcome the chance and would be on my best behavior.

[Lefty]

I tend to mostly solo hunt for elk
For other game I do hunt with family and their friends : non-jerks

However I did have one goose huniting partner who I knew when we first started hunting together it wouldnt last. He was a high-maintance guy And had always had a turnover of partners. He hunted hard like me and had quality gear for goose hunting. He put in a lot of effort for his 8-10 hunts per year .
After a while his grumbling got the best of me: About that time my daughters were able to dress comfortlably for late season hunts and I gained access to a field to place a pit 20 minutes from home.
So for me its more about who I hunt with or I hunt alone

[cnelk]

Lets put a bit more situation on this:

You know a guy and he has some really good hunting area. BIg bulls
Its not easy to get into and its at least a week long commitment.

Your 'buddy' is an ok guy, but borderline jerk. No sense of humor. but knows hows to call in bulls tho.
You know that if you go into his area you will probably be successful, but knowing you will
stuck with a borderline jerk for a whole week, is that worth it?

Or do you do it once and then say 'See ya!'?

[Still Hunter]

I hunted with my dad from 1950 to 1985 when he passed away. I've hunted alone since then, and i've dedicated all the hunts to him.

I couldn't hunt with anybody else whether they were a jerk, or not.

[Willie makit]

Your making this hard cnelk,

sounds like a hard core guy with zero personality but knows what he's doing. I think I'd have to bite the bullet chuck it up to a great learning opportunity. Hopefully he will put up with and answer all my questions, heck 7 days can't be any worse than my college algebra I took in one summer after being out of high school for x- years.

Ohh, I'm getting some bad flashbacks now.

[Swede]

I would go with a border line jerk. I am not perfect, so I can accept the fact that others may miss the mark. To me one type of jerk is, as mentioned, a constant complainer. By far the worst jerk, is the person who manipulates the hunt, so they always have the best chance to get any game. As Brad mentioned earlier, the jerk is the guy that has that "yeah for me and screw you" attitude.
I arrive early in my hunting area and may set up 8-10 stands in some of the best places I know. Am I a jerk? Well don't ask the guy that arrived in the area two days after me. Am I a jerk? Don't ask the guy that started to pull into the meadow where I was already camped. Sometimes it is just a matter of perspective.

[Indian Summer]

Your making this hard cnelk,

He sure is!

sounds like a hard core guy with zero personality but knows what he's doing. I think I'd have to bite the bullet chuck it up to a great learning opportunity. Hopefully he will put up with and answer all my questions

And then if he really is that much of an unbearable disrespectful jerk I may go with the "it is public land" angle and return in the future without him!

[cnelk]

[Indian Summer]

Ha ha... you old dog!!!

You really did make it tough. For me to say I'd hit his honey hole without him is a testament to that.

[Lefty]

I can deal with a lot of other peoples issue better than most.
Im also not the type to "use " anyone.
A borderline jerk and some jerks I can deal with, even those without much of a sence of humor.
If I felt we would still be friends afterwards and I could pay back the favor, I would.

[Stateline]

[quote="Swede"]I would go with a border line jerk.

Thanks Swede! I'll send you details on the hunt later!

[Swede]

Stateline: That is great. I really try not to be a jerk and am careful not to complain or knowingly to take advantage of other hunters. but I am intense. Often I forget that it is supposed to be fun. In other words, I may cross that line and become a little too demanding of my closest friends. Of coarse they have long ago learned to ignore me, when it isn't working for them.

[BrentLaBere]

I would go on the hunt with the "jerk". Sometimes I wonder if I fall into that category because of the intensity I have towards hunting. The look on one of my hunting partners face after leaving well before light and getting back well after was letting me know I was the jerk because I insisted we do it all over again the next day.

[cnelk]

Lets put a monetary factor on this

Would you spend $3000 - $4000 dollars on a hunt like this?

[Indian Summer]

Heck no!!!

[cohunter14]

Lets put a monetary factor on this

Would you spend $3000 - $4000 dollars on a hunt like this?

Boy, 3-4k can get you a lot of things, including different hunts...I probably wouldn't do it.

[Willie makit]

That was easy

image.jpg (23.32 KiB) Viewed 16418 times

[Stateline]

3 or 4 K!!!! I don't know if I could pay that much to hunt with a saint, let alone a jerk!! Any of you are welcome to come hunt with me for a cool $2995. Let me know!!

[Still Hunter]

There's a big advantage to hunting alone. You can be the biggest jerk in the world, and it doesn't matter.

[cnelk]

So this is what Im seeing...

Some would hunt with a borderline jerk.... IF it didnt cost very much

[Stateline]

Now to seriously answer the question. I've never been faced with the opportunity of knowingly choosing to hunt with a "so called" jerk. I have horn-hunted with a few people that I thought were pretty stand up that turned out to take advantage. Those situations were in my own areas though. To go with someone that I knew was difficult probably wouldn't be enough incentive for me. Especially if "jerk" meant borderline unethical. My time is precious. The time I take I want to enjoy. Also, hunting for me is much different than some. I cringe when I pay for my Idaho resident tags. I've never even considered hunting out-of-state, so 3-4K would actually completely close any consideration at this stage of my life. I absolutely love bow hunting elk, but cost is a major factor in my hunting decisions. I would love for that to change someday, but for the foreseeable future that's the truth. I know enough good people that archery hunt that I don't think I'd seek out this opportunity. We'd all love to find a monster bull for sure, but for me that's only part of the experience. I guess to me it's the company that you keep.

[Still Hunter]

I'm with you Mat on the cost. I spend about $150 for a deer and elk hunt, and that includes the price of the tags.

[Glacier Country]

Ha ha... you old dog!!!

You really did make it tough. For me to say I'd hit his honey hole without him is a testament to that.

Ha ha... you old dog!!!

You really did make it tough. For me to say I'd hit his honey hole without him is a testament to that.

I have hunted with a few jerks in my time.... But I have to say you just move on.

Your making this hard cnelk,

He sure is!

sounds like a hard core guy with zero personality but knows what he's doing. I think I'd have to bite the bullet chuck it up to a great learning opportunity. Hopefully he will put up with and answer all my questions

And then if he really is that much of an unbearable disrespectful jerk I may go with the "it is public land" angle and return in the future without him!

Indian Summer,I am a little surprised at your post! Even if he is a jerk, I still think that you are breaking the " Hunting Spot Code " hunting his spot. Using the It's Public land angle would be frowned upon in our neck of the woods! Jerk or not, if he put in the work to find a spot to hunt,and he takes you to that spot, its still his spot and you should move on and respect that. If you did hunt his spot,It seems disrespectful,and doesn't that constitute him calling you a jerk? Hmm??

[Indian Summer]

Nope... hunting... like life is about mutual respect. It's a 2 way street. If he has absolutely zero respect for others then he deserves none himself. Do unto others.... A true "jerk" can call me a jerk all day long and it wouldn't phase me. I'm a two sided coin Glacier.... 99% nice guy but the other 1% is brutally honest.

Cnelk's posts make me envision the biggest disrespectful selfish jerk I can imagine. I just might tell him in advance I was hitting it alone. If the jerk confronted me in the field or at camp I'd probably use the opportunity to teach him a lesson by choosing the right words, & tell him why I was there. In the long run I'd look at it as doing him a favor and would likely even tell him that and say "no charge". lol Some people learn everything the hard way. To be clear... I'd hunt it solo and not with anyone else because he didn't disrespect anyone else but me.

I live by the same code and that would be the first time I ever broke it. This is all hypothetical so who knows... maybe I couldn't bring myself to do it but... maybe.

As far as that code goes... all the spots I hunt I found and learned myself and just about all of them have been raided by others... who for some reason Glacier, have no clue about the code. They've come out and said "You don't own it" Holy freakin' $h1t does that make me furious hearing that. So yes... I know the code as well or better than anyone else. I've always been the victim and not the jerk. Grrrrrrr!!!!!! Being the victim is a good way to know the code all too well I can assure you. Over the years I've had a real problem dealing with an anti-outfitter mentality.

Like I said... brutally honest to the bone. On the other side of my coin.... I keep showing them spots because they can't kill anything and I feel sorry for them. Then I end up kicking myself for it when they show up with people I don't even know. Deep deep subject with me I can tell you.

Cnelk... are you looking for a partner?

[Indian Summer]

OK Glacier you struck a nerve. I thought of you all the way to work and back.

Here's the deal: I'm getting the idea that Brad wants us to envision the jerk of all jerks.

One time I invited a friend of a friend to go rabbit hunting with my beagles. He brought his dad, a very mild mannered guy you can't help but like. Not much of a hunter though. He missed a bunny or two and his son tore him a new one both times. On the third one he snapped " What the F is the matter with you old man! I didn't come here to watch you F things up all day! if you miss one more time you'll be waiting for us in the truck a hole" Oh my God I was floored. This was my hunting spot, my dogs, and my invitation. I never hunted with him again. This year a friends young son took his first buck which was a very respectable one at that. He took it to the jerks house as their dads were friends. Mike the jerk comes out and says yeah I wouldn't have shot that deer... look at the one I shot.... you'll never get one like this. To a 12 year old kid! Makes my blood boil thinking about it. There are some nasty people in this world.

So for the record I'm envisioning this guy. Would I enjoy shooting a monster in his spot and rubbing it in his face? By all means! Would you? Are they worthy of our code of ethics?

Anyway first of all in Cnelk's scenario I'm picturing not realizing the guy is a jerk. So he invites me to go hunting and says no need to research or buy a map I have my spot dialed in for "us". But when I get there things turn from good to bad to ugly real quick and I realize I'm just a packer in case he kills something. There for his benefit only. Inside the tent he points in a random direction and says "just go that way it's pretty good" And he heads the opposite direction. He doesn't kill anything and just complains all night every night. Then when I do kill bull he says I just got lucky. Lucky he even invited me in the first place too and can't afford to sacrifice any of his valuable time and good luck packing my elk out on my own.

So... if I decided to go back I'd call him and be honest. "I'm going back on my own and I want you to know why" The intentions are good though believe it or not. My hope is that after being brutally honest he'll cave in and say something like "Yeah, I know. I hate my life. My job sucks. My marriage is miserable. I just hate life in general and I guess I took it out on you" At that point..... being the sucker I am I'd say "ok let's give this another try if you promise to remember this conversation and find the good in yourself" That's where HE gets to choose the fork in the road. We either hunt together or he says (in Cnelks words) "Yeah well yay for me and screw you. I'll be there too and looking to mess up your hunt any way I can blah blah blah" Well then so be it. He found the 1% of me asked for.

But the glitch in the whole scenario is that my version is where I didn't know the guy was a jerk before the first hunt. Brad said "Would you if you knew he was the world's biggest jerk" In that case I would have set myself up for disaster and so I would have nobody to blame but myself. So the answer to Brad's question, the original question is no... who in their right mind would intentionally plan a hunt with someone like that. Especially if they were spending a substantial amount of money on it.

Someone in another post above used the word respect. Your hunter code of ethics is based on respect. But let's not forget that self respect is just as important and therefore if a guy set me up for a bad hunt for his own benefit then yes, Id handle it as I just said and knowing I was an ethical respectful hunter I'd respect my decision and hunt where I wanted because he had gotten what he asked for.

So Brad... I would really like to know why you ask??? It sounds like you may have a real life dilemma and are unsure of what to do. I'm very curious what sparked this thread????

[cnelk]

Swede...
You been watching this thread?

I could use your help here....

[Trophyhill]

Lets put a monetary factor on this

Would you spend $3000 - $4000 dollars on a hunt like this?

not a chance. I don't spend that much when hunting solo. why would I want to spend that much hunting with an ass?

Jeremy, you hit the nail on the head and It was nice to be on the same page. had it been different I don't think any of us would have hesitated to head off in our own directions with no hard feelings. that truly was a great hunt and I'm glad you got to kill and your son got to shoot.

[easeup]

gosh IS I would like to chime in....but I can't type that much to keep up..lol.

Most of us that solo, are that way because of lots of what has been posted above too. the guys that don't fit in or live by the code, they never call again and I am usually glad of it too. But as you already noted, we go to hunt elk and kill. I can get all of the happy camping trips I want with good friends. ( but my good friends cant hunt elk) When we buy that license, we have it to hunt not to happy camp even though they go together. So back to cnelk, yes I could put up with a sort of a jerk if I know it is gonna be elk paradise. It may not be all too much fun, but we get our elk home and then go back to the mountains with horses and friends to relax. That said, if I knew the guy was a total loser and would not even respect the game or the laws; no way I hang with him.
......if you ride with an outlaw; you die with an outlaw......

[Willie makit]

Wow, I had envisioned a jerk, but your friends friend qualifies as THE JERK. A disrespectful one to boot, his own dad, a young kid, ohh I got the red a$s just thinking about that.

[Swede]

Swede...
You been watching this thread?

I could use your help here....

I have been watching this thread. It is obvious to me that we all have our own idea of what constitutes a jerk. I do not know if I can be of any help here. I work more on not being a jerk than I do on dealing with others. I think the ratio is about 90%-10%. I have only rarely hunted with people that I consider jerks. Usually they tried to take advantage of every situation and demonstrate a "yeah for me and screw you" attitude. One fellow would shoot anything that was brown when he was frustrated at not getting a buck. I long ago quit hunting with him.

[Stateline]

Well said Swede. I wish everyone would take that same attitude. I've learned that most often we can't change others. That fella mentioned above (yellng at his dad and belittling his son) definately qualifies as a jerk! However, I doubt there is much I could do to change that. I can change me, though. If I can work on "me" not being a jerk, then I can sleep at night. No need to stoop to anothers level just for a little taste of success. To me, if I have to lower my personal standards to gain an advantage, in this case keeping company that I know would compromise my self-worth for a chance at hunting a great spot, then I think it might be time to look at myself a little closer. I've been fortunate to deal with the 90% that Swede referred to for the most part. If I can't find it and kill it myself, or with a group of outstanding people, then it's not that important that I kill it. Surround yourself with good people, enjoy the outcome, and let the rest fall where it may. I know misery loves company, just don't let it be me!!

[cohunter14]

The more I think about this, the more I would initially say 'no thanks.' However in your case Brad, do to your recent lack of success, I think you HAVE to take him up on the offer no matter what the cost. Who knows, you might actually bag an elk this year! LOL!!!!