Hanging your meat

[LckyTylr]

So, I have a good friend whom I really respect as an Elk hunter. He's not on this site as he very nearly has it figured out. He's strictly a rifle hunter and it doesn't even seem to be a question about "if" he will get his bull each year. Last year he was solely focused on getting a big buck and since in Idaho you can shoot a buck and a bull with your regular tags and then you can pay for non-res tags and get one of each again, he killed two nice bucks AND a nice bull last year.

The only thing that puzzles me is his method of taking care of his meat after a successful hunt. He competes in multiple ironman and triathlons each year in preparation for hunting, so he REALLY gets back in there a long ways, almost always hunting solo. When he kills a bull deep into the Wilderness, he often debones everything, stuffs the meat in garbage bags and then hauls it all to the nearest creek and completely submerges under water. He will use rocks to create a damn and weight everything down. As I said, his pack trips are long, last year he was GE 6 miles as a crow flies from his truck when he killed his bull. He brought everything out in 4 trips and it took him an extra day (i was worried about him when he didn't show up for class). He gets every ounce of meat out of an animal and the meat never "spoils", but I have heard so many people say that you should NEVER do something like this to meat.

He never throws out any meat and wild game is the only kind of meat that he and his wife eat (as you can imagine with him being such a lethal predator). I don't understand the chemistry of how meat cures, but I do know that it needs free flowing air to develop the "skin" of helpful bacteria . . . can't get this under water.

What do you guys think. No meat ever goes to waste, but dang . . . flirting with disaster? He's been doing it like this for a decade's worth of elk.

[ElkNut1]

Where's the issue there Tyler? There's no difference in him putting the bagged meat into a stream than getting to camp & putting it in a cooler with ice. We too use water when needed to cool meat & keep it cool. There's a section near the back in the PLayBook that talks about putting meat in the water if you're so lucky to be around it when your animal goes down. Nothing wrong with it at all. What are your concerns besides hearsay?

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

Done properly his method works excellent. Plastic bags while meat is still warm is a death sentence FOR SURE. But if you sumberge it in a mountain stream making absolutely sure that no water (bacteria) gets in the bag then it's as good as putting it in the refrigerator. I guarantee he has the tops of the bags up out of the water.

Meat cools from the outside in. Therefore it sours from the inside out because the inside stays warm and grows bacteria the longest. Bone sour is very obvious. it smells very sour and the meat will show a green haze in some areas. If you see and smell that on the outside it's all over since the outside goes bad last.

The only reason you hang meat, or at least lay it up high across a branch is to get air to it. That is the next best thing to frigid water for dissapating heat. Your friends plan enables him to take the time he needs to do it all solo. The fact that he doesn't waste an ounce is proof that it works and he's doing it right. Once the meat is cool it's ok to leave the garbage bags on to keep the temp down on the way out. Less messy is an added bonus.

Your friend has his act together and if I were you I'd ask about the possibility of sharing a camp with the understanding that you head the opposite direction as him every morning.

"doesn't even seem to be a question about "if" he will get his bull each year" I like that guy. THAT'S the way to think. On second thought maybe I'll see if he'd let me join him. (grin)

[JGH]

Water conducts heat more efficiently than air ... so water would be the obvious "best choice" were it not for the trouble of keeping the meat dry.

For those who have done this -- one question: Do you cool the meat first?

That, I think, would avoid the problem of trapping too much heat in the bag at the beginning. After all, not all elk die within easy walking distance of a stream or pond.

[Indian Summer]

No JGH... I won't cool it first. As you stated the best way to cool it is in water. Once submerged it's cooling way faster than with air so the bag isn't a factor in trapping heat by becoming an insulator eliminating air circulation. But to be clear.... I won't bag it until I'm next to the water in a good spot ready to dunk it.

Blow the bag up with air first!!!!!!!! It absolutely cannot have even the slightest pinhole and if you can find a sandy or silty spot where there are less risks of puncturing the bags.

If you aren't near water but get close to some on your way out you could buy tons of time by doing the normal hanging, then the next day pack it all to the water no matter how many trips it takes. From there pack it the rest of the way to the truck knowing that time isn't so critical anymore.

Solo guys should really think about this especially in warmer temps. There's only one thing worse than tag soup and that's rotten eggs for elk meat.

Hay, er uh HEY.... I topped the 300 post mark! Sure glad I'm not a dang raghorn anymore!

[Swede]

I have never soaked meat in a mountain stream or anything like it, but this thread has me wondering. What would be the problem if the meat got soaked in the water for a few (10-12) hours? I understand that kosher meats have all of the blood soaked out before it is cooked. The butcher always washes the carcasses before taking them into the cooler. I know you don't want any dirt or crawling critters on the meat. Has anyone had their meat get soaked before they got it into long term storage?

[elkmtngear]

I have never soaked meat in a mountain stream or anything like it, but this thread has me wondering. What would be the problem if the meat got soaked in the water for a few (10-12) hours? I understand that kosher meats have all of the blood soaked out before it is cooked. The butcher always washes the carcasses before taking them into the cooler. I know you don't want any dirt or crawling critters on the meat. Has anyone had their meat get soaked before they got it into long term storage?

Swede, I've had quarters I have hung for several days get rained and/or snowed on. Never any spoilage.

Then again, I've never had them got hot after this, that would probably be my main concern for spoilage.

[cnelk]

i have quarters rained on. I try to get them dry and cool so mold wont start.
Mold does best in temps of 60 -80.
mold needs 4 things, mold spores, moisture and organic matter, and warm temp to grow.

so, no moisture and cool, you will be good.

[BrentLaBere]

One thing I noticed last year when some of my meat got wet from sitting in the coolers with ice was that it lost its coloring....
Temps were perfect the night I shot it and was able to pack it out. Down to 30 F. But the next day I had a 3 hour drive in rising temps and put a lot of ice on the meat. The part sitting in the bottom of the cooler lost a lot of color. It wasn't much but I thought it was from sitting in the water and it was only a small outside layer. My meat was only in game bags so if you were to have them in garbage bags to help this out I don't think there would be a problem. It's how I plan on transporting it this next year.

I will be planning on something similar to this next fall being by myself. Makes me realize I was lucky to get mine in the evening with the temps they way they were. Got away with a lucky lesson.

[Indian Summer]

Rain and snow is different than surface water which may contain contaminates such as giardia not to mention waste from animals. I'd drink rain water but not unfiltered surface water. Double bagging cant hurt if you're able to. Cheap insurance if you're submerging meat.

[FemoralArchery]

I've bagged and frozen meat that was still body temperature before, I don't see how this is much different.

There isn't but a stream or two in the entire unit I hunt that has enough cold water to cool down an elk quarter. I wish there was, its usually 80+ where I elk hunt.

[flystrait]

One thing I noticed last year when some of my meat got wet from sitting in the coolers with ice was that it lost its coloring....
Temps were perfect the night I shot it and was able to pack it out. Down to 30 F. But the next day I had a 3 hour drive in rising temps and put a lot of ice on the meat. The part sitting in the bottom of the cooler lost a lot of color. It wasn't much but I thought it was from sitting in the water and it was only a small outside layer. My meat was only in game bags so if you were to have them in garbage bags to help this out I don't think there would be a problem. It's how I plan on transporting it this next year.

I will be planning on something similar to this next fall being by myself. Makes me realize I was lucky to get mine in the evening with the temps they way they were. Got away with a lucky lesson.

This is the way we do it enven if its several days before we head home. The meat will loose some color due to the blood draing out of it. All of the butchers I have taken meat to after leaving it in ice water like this say "this meat is in great shape better than most we see". That means something to me..

[ElkNut1]

OK, as we can see putting your meat in the water or cooler is much better than just letting in sit it the heat or hot sun. If you are to put your meat in the water/stream to cool down do this for 15 min or so if off the bone as meat cools from the outside then towards the center. If still on the bone/quarters then leave meat in the water aprox 30min to cool down partially , the most heat will stay near the center or bone. Now remove meat out of water & squeegee water off with your hand best you can & hang up or lean it up against tree/rock so air can get around it, do this best you can with boned meat & turn from side to side, or hang off rope-line or branches. You will do this with either boned or quartered meat. Let it air dry & it will form a seal or scab, this is good, only takes 10 min or so depending on weather, breeze & temps! If hauling meat home right then & cutting up or hanging it longer in a cooled environment then put back in meat bags, do not pile them on one another & trap heat between them in transit if hours away.

If bivy hunting or no coolers at camp & near water/stream do above method & once meat is scabbing put back in meat bags & put a quarters worth of meat in garbage bags, if at camp double bag for best protection. Now put back in water to keep cool & preserve temps & meat. This can be done for many days. Turn meat each day if possible to prevent it sitting on one side for days at a time. Only do this if temps are just flat hot day & night. If cool nights in the 40's or lower you can remove meat from water & trash bags & hang so air hits them well then put back in water in the mornings throughout the heat of the day.

ElkNut1

[LckyTylr]

Wow . . . everyone . . . . Thank you for the replies.

This is eye-opening for sure. I had always just read that, other than the obvious fact that cooling meat immediately, airing meat out is important. I always just assumed that the oxygen aided in the curing and that the cooling was just necessary to keep from spoiling.

Now I know that the most important thing is just to cool it down. I'll be sure to pack some garbage bags this year. I hunt areas with plenty of running water.

I only wish that I could convince my friend to be an archery guy. I can't talk myself into killing an elk with a rifle until I have done so with a bow. Last year, during rifle season, I went deer hunting in a different unit where I regularly see elk. It's a unit that has archery season AFTER rifle, so I never get my tag there. Anyway, I spotted a herd of two rag horns, two spikes and 7 or 8 cows/calves from about 150 yards away. I snuck to within 35 yards of the two rag horns, watched the herd feed and mill around for about 10 minutes, watched the rag horns spar a few times, and then decided to back out away from them so I wouldn't spook them and waste their hard-earned winter fat reserve energy. Could have easily stuck any of them with stick and string . . . . argh!

[FemoralArchery]

Wow . . . everyone . . . . Thank you for the replies.

This is eye-opening for sure. I had always just read that, other than the obvious fact that cooling meat immediately, airing meat out is important. I always just assumed that the oxygen aided in the curing and that the cooling was just necessary to keep from spoiling.

Now I know that the most important thing is just to cool it down. I'll be sure to pack some garbage bags this year. I hunt areas with plenty of running water.

I only wish that I could convince my friend to be an archery guy. I can't talk myself into killing an elk with a rifle until I have done so with a bow. Last year, during rifle season, I went deer hunting in a different unit where I regularly see elk. It's a unit that has archery season AFTER rifle, so I never get my tag there. Anyway, I spotted a herd of two rag horns, two spikes and 7 or 8 cows/calves from about 150 yards away. I snuck to within 35 yards of the two rag horns, watched the herd feed and mill around for about 10 minutes, watched the rag horns spar a few times, and then decided to back out away from them so I wouldn't spook them and waste their hard-earned winter fat reserve energy. Could have easily stuck any of them with stick and string . . . . argh!

Next year you will be able to buy an A tag and a B tag, so you can hunt rifle if you don't succeed with a bow.

[Da White Shoe]

You guys will want to watch out when using garbage bags... some of them are treated with chemicals... scented, to cut down on odors.
I would suggest using 3MIL, un-scented, commercial grade, trash compactor bags... way thicker and tougher.

[LckyTylr]

Femoral, I would love to buy both an A and B tag, but for some reason Wifey doesn't think that $375 is a good investment. Something about how I'll be gone for ANOTHER month . . . and Gas $ . . . and Food $ . . . and the pets and my Son are about to push her over the edge . . .

Something like that.

[slim9300]

Done properly his method works excellent. Plastic bags while meat is still warm is a death sentence FOR SURE. But if you sumberge it in a mountain stream making absolutely sure that no water (bacteria) gets in the bag then it's as good as putting it in the refrigerator. I guarantee he has the tops of the bags up out of the water.

Let's hope this last sentence is correct. If he really does submerge the bag completely I would disagree with his method as a personal preference. With a sealed bag, where would the heat / moisture escape to?

I prefer to lay the boned out meat on slightly elevated boughs overnight if the temps are below 40 degrees and then utilize the creek method if need be.

[Indian Summer]

Da White... good point! I forgot to mention that... no scented bags!

Also... here is a VERY handy and proven product used in Alaska where shade can be scarce and bugs plenty. Repels flies and fights bacteria. Cheap too at about 3 bucks but.... $29 to ship!!! LOL.... But priceless.

http://www.indianvalleymeats.com/gamesaver.htm

[Herb]

Look for bags labeled "food grade", then you have no worries.

Just ground the last 150lbs of last years bull. It is all boned out and iced during the hunt. If time, we will process when we get home. If not, we finish cleaning it up and freeze it in 25lb portions to get to it later.