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I've Changed My Mind

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I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 09 28, 2021 •  [Post 1]

For years I said I would only call from my tree stand on the rarest occasion. I've changed my mind on that. Except when calling after the shot or to stop an elk on the spot, I would never call from my stand. The following incident is not unique, but illustrates why I do not call from a tree stand. I too have made this mistake.
I took a fellow into a new tree stand location. After getting the stand set, I showed him a good location in a nearby small draw to bugle from. From that draw he would not be seen, and any elk within hearing distance would need come within shooting range of the stand before it could see where the bugle came from. This friend decided to ignore the advise and called from the stand. A nice bull came within 75 yards and walked back and forth in the timber looking for the bugler. After walking back and forth a couple of times the bull walked away. My friend had a nice view and saw a good bull, but just has a memory to show for his efforts.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Elkhunttoo » 09 30, 2021 •  [Post 2]

So, I’m ready to hear why you have changed your mind?

Excited to see how your season went
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Elkhunttoo » 10 01, 2021 •  [Post 3]

Also this is a topic my group has talked about a lot this last week so I’m ready to hear from the tree man himself if we should call or not.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 10 01, 2021 •  [Post 4]

Years ago I was having a lot of trouble with "hang-ups." That is bulls would stop coming in before they were in shooting range. The dang critters would come in from over a quarter mile away but stop before they were where I could get a shot at them. Consistently they would hang-up and walk back and forth a couple of times then just head back where they came from. I called Elknut and he explained the importance of a good set-up. You need to be in a position where the elk is within range and open for a shot before he can see where you were. I do not remember everything I have read or heard from Paul, but I consider that the absolute best piece of advise I ever got from him. It is probably because that was the thing I was the most deficient in.
From experience I had already learned to never return a bugle from a bull. They won't come in to a stand over a water hole if they hear an answer. My theory on that is that they call just to find out if the water hole is clear of elk. It is likely they want to avoid trouble and if you return their bugle, they will just go somewhere else. Not being the fastest learner, it took me several experiences with this until I realized I was messing up by answering them.
General or regular calling from a stand is counter productive because of your location. You pick a tree that you can see out from, to be able to shoot the elk when it comes in. Even though you may be in some cover, elk can see the place where you called from. When they get close they stop and look to see the caller. They don't look up into the tree but they observe the ground around you. I have found they don't do this occasionally or even most of the time. They do it all the time, and since they don't see the caller they turn back before you get a shot.
Elknut suggested splashing the water, raking and calling before I climb into my stand. I do all or some of that from a nearby location before I go up into my stand most of the time. I bugle where the elk are least likely to be able to verify No elk are present, then I scurry up into my stand. After taking several elk using that technique, I have at least convinced myself that is the best way to attract elk in the area, and to get them. I believe that was a major factor in taking my last two elk. One came into the exact spot I called from, and the one I shot this year was on a bee line to my calling location.
I hope this helps and it is clear. Thanks for asking.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Elkhunttoo » 10 02, 2021 •  [Post 5]

I went back and read some of the topics on calling from a stand…my uncles have talked about this topic since I was a kid 25-30 years ago…we are looking at putting some tree stands in bedding areas next year…we will also put a couple on the main water crossings too…I think some areas will be better to call from then others
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 10 02, 2021 •  [Post 6]

I have found it very productive to find a nearby spot where elk need to come close to see the "elk" before they get shot. Just call before you get into your stand and wait. It can take a couple of hours before some elk come around looking. The one I got to come in this season only waited 1/2 hour before it showed up. The guy I wrote about that called from his stand had a bull come in about 1/2 hour later, but unfortunately he had called from his stand and the bull knew something was wrong.
Often there are no elk within hearing range when you call. It could be productive to get out of your stand after a couple of hours and call again. I rarely do that, preferring to just wait silently in my stand.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Jhg » 02 14, 2022 •  [Post 7]

I would absolutely call from a stand given the right scenario. I would call if a group came in and was going to pass by without a shot offered. I would call to the herd bull- a bugle followed by panting.

This is a non-threat call that is like saying come over and say howdy. There are a lot of times not to use it but know what they are. It is a great way to call a bull back toward you.
Be hidden/still, and pick your moment to raise the bugle. None of the group can see you or its game over.

When elk come in and are leaving, or if they are walking past out of range, you are never going to have a shot for yourself unless you influence the group. How do you do that? Call.
What do you have to lose by trying, other than the "maybe they will be back tomorrow if..." you do nothing? Not much of a bargain.

Call them back to you. Unless the group is satellite annoyed because cows are estrus calling the bull back toward you works on relaxed groups.

The reason I believe in this approach is: 1) I have done it on the ground so I know it works 2) what is the difference on ground or up in a tree? None except on the ground is harder IMO in regards to scent and them getting a visual. If they do not wind or see you, tree or on dirt who cares. You have an excellent chance of creating an opportunity that would never have presented itself otherwise.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 02 15, 2022 •  [Post 8]

Just remember one very simple thing: the elk know exactly where you called from. They can pinpoint you from a long way off.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Jhg » 02 15, 2022 •  [Post 9]

Yup, for sure. It is important they can't id you when they/he comes in. My 2021 bull came in head-on first, and stopping facing me at 20 yards for a long long time (90 seconds?). No shot. I had to let him leave, then called again, this time he turned and circled toward me but now below and broadside. He was looking for the bull(me) exactly where I was.

I was so nervous about using this call right then but they were going to walk right by and never was a shot going to happen. I took a chance and it has helped my confidence a lot because if I had not gone ahead and made myself known I never would have tagged this nice herd bull.
I was standing erect, motionless and with some back cover but not much. If the elk are relaxed you can get away with just that.

Drive-by gloat photo below just to emphasize for those unaware of the effectiveness of calling in a bull early season using bugle/panting.
I don't know if I would try it unless I was certain there was going to be no other opportunity offered. Elk are individuals susceptible to moods and differing responses to similar circumstances. Keep that in mind. No call is a 100% guarantee of success.

95133ADE-C840-4C4C-9C76-D0805DAA3A82.jpeg
95133ADE-C840-4C4C-9C76-D0805DAA3A82.jpeg (217.53 KiB) Viewed 2904 times
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 02 15, 2022 •  [Post 10]

To be fair, jhg, I agree with your take on this. The problem I have noticed is that most people don't understand the whole picture. Whereas general calling from a stand is not a good idea, answering a bull from your stand is much worse.
When I have people hunting from my camp, I want them to fill their tag. I take it personally. Since many or most people that come around don't understand calling, I try to get them to just forget it. When I tried to get a fellow hunter to call from a good setup location this past season, he ignored that advise and called from his stand. Of course, the bull came in, looked around for the bull and left without giving him a shot opportunity. This same dimwit would get out of his stand and wander around the surrounding area calling.
I gave up and decided it was his $700 tag. A person can talk and explain all they want, but you can't cure stupid.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Jhg » 02 15, 2022 •  [Post 11]

I think thats an accurate assessment. It has taken me a long time to know how to read a situation, know what to say elk wise and when to keep quiet.

I know one thing:
I will NEVER call if I do not understand the why of it, the when of it, the necessity of it. Remove any of those conditions and its a mouse I am with a bow and an arrow sneaking around, unseen, unheard, unknown.
Maybe Paul or someone else could make a situation evolve that I could not. Thats ok, I will get there one day.

The main thing is not screwing your chance. Its always best to give yourself another chance if you do not have the skills yet to "make" it happen. But if you can make it happen when it isn't going to otherwise you best go for it.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby >>>---WW----> » 03 07, 2022 •  [Post 12]

Don't over think it! :roll: When treestand hunting over water, no splashing, no raking, and no calling is required... The water hole alone is the attractant or reason the elk will come, nothing else matters. Same goes for hunting over well used trails.

Hunting from a tree is simple. 1) climb tree 2) elk walks by 3)shoot elk!!!! Location, location, location! is the key factor ;)
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 03 08, 2022 •  [Post 13]

Bill, I have to disagree. Certainly, location is key and if you are at the perfect location, you will get elk. But what do you do when there are several points in the vicinity that are all equal as far as the elk are concerned? Which one will the elk come to? What if a bull is out there and has no reason to come and could go any other way?
You can improve your chances of bringing the elk right to you by some sort of call. I don't believe for a minute you need to splash and rake. You can just give a short bugle. Make just enough sound to pique their curiosity. I have raked and splashed too, but it is impossible to say if that is what brought in the elk.

One day I went to my stand and another hunter went to his stand about 80 yards away. I splashed and raked and gave out a short bugle before I headed up my tree. I had three bulls come right to where I called from while the other hunter had none.
I have had elk come looking for the bull they heard. They just stand there looking until they are shot.
I have called and had elk come close to just have a look and not come in. They were not getting water and were not on a trail.
Are all of these coincidences. I don't think so. It is important to call from a location where the elk must come within your shooting range before they figure out the caller is no elk. Some elk will come close, even though they think the bull walked off. Others are very suspicious. Assume all elk are suspicious and you will do better.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 03 08, 2022 •  [Post 14]

Now I am back from my hike and trip into town.
There is a reason this thread is titled the way it is. The truth is I have changed my mind a couple of three times. It has taken quite a few years to determine that I am actually improving my shot opportunities from my standby careful calling. I have been right where Bill is and saw it the exact same way. The trouble is that not everywhere can I pick the place that elk will come without some special encouragement. I love hunting the semi-desert where I am at the only water hole within at least hundreds of yards. That is not the case in much of elk country. And some places it is hard to find trails that are getting hit with any regularity.
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Jhg » 03 09, 2022 •  [Post 15]

Swede wrote:...careful calling...


This ties into the thread about how do you know if what you read/hear regarding elk hunting is worth anything.

Careful calling is in my mind an under appreciated, under used and under advocated skill that can really increase the odds you will close the deal. Online, its all about finding bulls who will "talk" or "play". If the hunter gets no response to bugles, they move on. I always wonder how many opportunities for huntable bulls are missed by the "if they are silent we hunt elsewhere" mindset.

Elk are pretty savvy. When you call in a way that is subtle, less invasive and more in keeping with relaxed elk (all the time in the world) than pushing it (hey hurry up respond to me lets git-er-done) you might be surprised by who comes for a visit.

Just sayin...
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Re: I've Changed My Mind

Postby Swede » 03 10, 2022 •  [Post 16]

I have been amazed as a tree stand hunter on how long elk can take to come to a simple short bugle. As I have shared here before, I have seen them take two hours on numerous occasions. Where the come to and where they look for the bull shows they are seeking the bull they thought they heard. They will come in and look then turn around and go back to where they came from. Jhg you are right on.
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