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Sight & Scent

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Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 25, 2013 •  [Post 1]

Whenever you are calling elk, and they catch your scent, you have just educated the elk. Whenever you are calling elk, and they get to see you, you have just educated the elk. Where I hunt every elk over two years old is well educated now. I have seen elk fleeing an excellent caller. That caller had me convinced he was the real thing until I finally saw him. It is my observation that there is not enough emphasis on the techniques needed to avoid being seen or scented. This is especially true of hunters who are new and have seen the videos of private ranch hunts. Without paying close attention to these factors, the best sounding call is pretty much doomed as an effort in futility. Many public land elk are wise enough to be extra cautious when they hear the sound of an unfamiliar bull in their area.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 06 25, 2013 •  [Post 2]

I agree
There is one ridge I hunt only in the mornings as I know the wind will be predictable.
I can hunt it for a few mornings in a row by hunting soft and stealthy
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 06 25, 2013 •  [Post 3]

Swede wrote: It is my observation that there is not enough emphasis on the techniques needed to avoid being seen or scented. This is especially true of hunters who are new and have seen the videos of private ranch hunts. Without paying close attention to these factors, the best sounding call is pretty much doomed as an effort in futility.


Money right here folks. Don't care if you can win three out of four elk calling championships, elk calling prowess is a secondary technique (IMO) to the actual bread and butter of successful hunting. Cnelk mentioned something in thread a while back about native Americans using stealth, wind, terrain, etc., to their advantage first and foremost when they harvested elk (sorry if I don't remember it exactly, but it rang true to me). If one forgets to employ the rudimentary basic of hunting, your elk noises will do exactly as Swede has mentioned, educate elk. I'm a pretty dang good elk noise maker/interpreter but know in an instant when and why elk don't want to play. It's not because of my calling, it's because they have either seen or scented me, or, I've otherwise advertised that I'm not an elk by my actions. Pay attention to Swede guys/gals, he's spot on more than not.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby easeup » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 4]

amen to that.....
There have been too numerous occasions where a hunting partner cant sit still and be quiet during the last few moments of calling an elk in.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby >>>---WW----> » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 5]

Thanks for bringing this up Swede. Being a good caller doesn't even put you in the game if you don't know how to hunt smart. I have had bulls coming in hot and if the wind swirled, I was out of there before he ever had a chance to smell me. Went back the very next day and call in the same bull in the very same area. All this happened because I didn't educate him the day before.

It sort of like playing poker. You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em. You can let and elk see you and you might get away with it as long as you are perfectly still when he is looking your way. But let him smell you and it is game over before it even gets started!
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby BrentLaBere » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 6]

I completely agree you need sight and scent in your favor especially scent control.

>>>---WW----> wrote:Thanks for bringing this up Swede. Being a good caller doesn't even put you in the game if you don't know how to hunt smart. I have had bulls coming in hot and if the wind swirled, I was out of there before he ever had a chance to smell me. Went back the very next day and call in the same bull in the very same area. All this happened because I didn't educate him the day before.

It sort of like playing poker. You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em. You can let and elk see you and you might get away with it as long as you are perfectly still when he is looking your way. But let him smell you and it is game over before it even gets started!


So when do you put your chips all in? I am not sure if I will be able to sit back and say the wind isn't right coming down to the last day or two of my trip. I would like to say I will be patient and wait for the right opportunity. But why not dog him and take a chance? This may come down to ethics and being a young (inexperienced elk hunter) to see what I will do. I do not want to educate the elk but I don't want to come home empty handed either. I will let you know how the cards play out this September.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby >>>---WW----> » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 7]

Brent wrote: So when do you put your chips all in? I am not sure if I will be able to sit back and say the wind isn't right coming down to the last day or two of my trip. I would like to say I will be patient and wait for the right opportunity. But why not dog him and take a chance? This may come down to ethics and being a young (inexperienced elk hunter) to see what I will do. I do not want to educate the elk but I don't want to come home empty handed either. I will let you know how the cards play out this September.

Well, I suppose the short answer to your question would be, if the wind isn't right and (you put your chips all in) the elk just got educated. He is the winner and you loose!

#1 rule is ALWAYS know where the wind is.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 8]

Competing truths is what makes experience truly irreplaceable.

It is true that pushing the limits and risking being seen or smelled will lower your odds of getting in range.

It is also true that aggressiveness kills elk, and that sitting back and waiting for perfect conditions is a mistake for most guys who only have 7-10 days to hunt.

Experience and knowledge lets you balance competing priorities. For instance, if it's day one and you know the elk are bedded on a bench but the wind is wrong, then wait and hunt them that afternoon as they travel to feeding areas. If it's the last day then I'm circling to get the wind and either stalking them or aggressively calling to make something happen.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby BrentLaBere » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 9]

WW wrote: "He is the winner and you loose!" Jeesh not giving me any credit here!! :D HAHA.
I think I was being to general about me taking a chance. I would never run directly at the bull while having the wind at my back and the bull in front of me, 100 yards away with a nice 20 mph wind. Like RockChucker30 explains, "circling and getting aggressive". Still in this situation I understand you have the possibility of educating the elk, maybe I am being selfish? IDK...
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Vanish » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 10]

BrentLaBere wrote:Like RockChucker30 explains, "circling and getting aggressive". Still in this situation I understand you have the possibility of educating the elk, maybe I am being selfish? IDK...


I think RockChucker explained it well.

Where I hunt, generally I am going to go agressive, because unlike some of the wilderness hunters here, for me, the chances this bull will be in the same place tomorrow are slim. Too many other hunters on the mountain to educate the elk for me.

You've got to assess each situation individually. If you've got the time and the space, being cautious is a good idea.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 11]

The level of Patience executed on the 1st day of the hunt should be the same on the last.....
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 12]

RockChucker30 wrote: Competing truths is what makes experience truly irreplaceable.


With all due respect you are not dealing with "competing truths". They are only competing because you do not understand. There is a time to wait or even turn back. There is a time to advance quickly. As a hunter you need to know which is which. To think you are dealing with competing truths will give you license to make poor decisions thinking if I don't go for him now I will not get another opportunity. The truth is often quite the opposite. The truth is if you mess with him now you will never get another opportunity.
I know this will sound radicle, but consider it anyway. If I could hunt and mentor many of you younger and inexperienced elk hunters, I would like to take all of the noise making toys that you squeeze or blow and keep them for five years. During that time you would learn basic spot and stalk techniques. You would learn stealth and patience. After that you would get your calls back, so that you would be an even more lethal predator. You would no longer be fretting over "competing truths"'
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby BrentLaBere » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 13]

cnelk & Swede,
Thank you for your advice! Everyone else as well. I have found myself taking notes since joining here and sometimes I find myself speaking without knowing. This is one of those times. It is also a perfect time for me to make these types of notes in my playbook and remind myself of the advice you guys are giving here. The planning/learning continues...
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Vanish » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 14]

cnelk wrote:The level of Patience executed on the 1st day of the hunt should be the same on the last.....


Got to disagree here. You cannot "back out and come back in the morning" on the last day.

Edit: As was mentioned above, I don't think anyone is advising ignoring the basics, such as wind.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Vanish
You are stating the obvious, but even if it is the last day, don't let lack of patience deny you a day that could be successful.

I have hunted high pressured elk areas for 25 years.
During that time I have learned that toward the end of the season MORE patience is needed to be successful, not less.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby wawhitey » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 16]

so what about on a really calm day, no real wind to speak of, how close do you guys think you can be without the elk smelling you? lets assume you bathed with non scented soap, likewise for your clothes, and hosed yourself down with the scent killer spray. of course you have to work the wind, but if there really isnt any?
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby one_elk » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 17]

Swede wrote:
RockChucker30 wrote: Competing truths is what makes experience truly irreplaceable.


With all due respect you are not dealing with "competing truths". They are only competing because you do not understand. There is a time to wait or even turn back. There is a time to advance quickly. As a hunter you need to know which is which. To think you are dealing with competing truths will give you license to make poor decisions thinking if I don't go for him now I will not get another opportunity. The truth is often quite the opposite. The truth is if you mess with him now you will never get another opportunity.
I know this will sound radicle, but consider it anyway. If I could hunt and mentor many of you younger and inexperienced elk hunters, I would like to take all of the noise making toys that you squeeze or blow and keep them for five years. During that time you would learn basic spot and stalk techniques. You would learn stealth and patience. After that you would get your calls back, so that you would be an even more lethal predator. You would no longer be fretting over "competing truths"'



Very well said, Calls are but a tool not a short cut to success….at least IMHO
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby POk3s » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 18]

I somewhat disagree. Who's to say that there isn't another hunter on the opposite hillside with the wind blowing straight at the elk you're hunting. He might not come into YOUR calling because he's now spooked but does that mean he's now educated???? Maybe, maybe not. Elk are smart but I'm not sure that in an area where there are people an elk can distinguish elk sounds and human smell as the same thing. In my area if I play the wind 100% of the time I would never be hunting, I'd be camping. It swirls all day everyday. I'm as smart as I can be, but at the end of the day, I'm there to hunt, not camp.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 19]

[quote="cnelk"]

I have hunted high pressured elk areas for 25 years.
During that time I have learned that toward the end of the season MORE patience is needed to be successful, not less.

Ditto. In fact the last day is a great time to be hunting except for the fact that as Elvis sang "It's now or never". I have killed elk the last hour of the last day. The key is to have patience and never give up. I have seen coyotes and even a cougar hunting. They are not running around 99.9% of the time. Every move they make is purposeful. That cougar was the epitome of stealth. He made his run when he was within only a few yards of his quarry.

Wawhitey: The answer to your question depends on a number of factors. Terrain is a big one along with the time of day and the weather. First let me say I do not believe the air is ever still. You may need to use some powder (I use corn starch) or something extremely light to measure the movement, but movement is there.
By staying on one side of a drainage or ridge you can sometime move in very close. Many times it is best to wait until everything is in your favor. The truth is that you are not going to get most elk. You have to look and wait for the vulnerable. The successful pursuit of elk is far more than calling, however good your calls are. The point I have been trying to make is that there is nothing gained by educating the elk and running them off. That applies even on the last day. I agree that sometimes we take calculated risks. Just be smart about it. Just be honest with yourself and ask if you have a reasonable chance, or if what you are doing is an act of desperation doomed to failure. Personally, I would rather have just one more hour of good hunting, than waste my time blowing my bugle at a bull and running him off.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 26, 2013 •  [Post 20]

Swede wrote:
RockChucker30 wrote: Competing truths is what makes experience truly irreplaceable.


With all due respect you are not dealing with "competing truths". They are only competing because you do not understand..........You would no longer be fretting over "competing truths"'


Swede, maybe I didn't explain my point well, or maybe you're taking it a different way than what I intended.

There is a time to be aggressive, and a time to be passive, and a time to be sneaky. Pushing an iffy wind is commonplace in mountainous terrain, where the prevailing winds are best described as "swirling". If you never took risks you'd have little opportunity.

Experience teaches you which tactic may work best in a given situation.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 21]

I guess I have to respectfully disagree with Rockchucker30. My motto is that I'd rather hunt elk than to hunt for elk. "Pushing" swirling wind almost always results in the latter.

Where we hunt, the wind always swirls after about 9:30 a.m. It's painful to listen to a bull bugling out of a bedding patch while we're sitting back. But we know that bull may still be in the area when the wind is good. If we pushed it and tried to call or stalk him, I can guarantee he'd be in the next county.

Some evenings we can't hunt at all because the wind never settles. Or of it does, we get about 30 minutes of hunting. But it's 30 minutes of moving in and trying to kill a bull rather than trying to find a bull.

I do agree that pushing an iffy wind is commonplace these days in mountainous terrain. Which is precisely why so many elk are becoming call shy, and why so many guys complain that the elk in their area "dried up" after the first few days of the seeason.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 22]

Jaquomo wrote:I guess I have to respectfully disagree with Rockchucker30. My motto is that I'd rather hunt elk than to hunt for elk. "Pushing" swirling wind almost always results in the latter.



On my hunt last year I heard a bull bugling from the edge of a meadow about 250 yards away from me. The wind was predominately from right to left, but would blow in my face occasionally, and every now and then would swirl a bit. I took those odds and tried to circle and sneak closer. I got busted by an unseen cow and raghorn before I made it close enough to see the bull. Should have circled wider below a slight rise. I thought the risk in that situation was a decent one to take. I still think if I'd gone wider I would have gotten close to that bull.

A couple days later there was very little wind, but it did swirl a bit. It was raining which I thought would keep my scent down. I killed my bull while sitting at a creek crossing.

There is ALWAYS a calculated risk of being scented in the mountains. For a guy with 7 days to hunt, well you have to take some of those risks and do your best to manage the wind and go get it done at some point.

That goes for stand hunting as well. You plan your stands based on where you think your scent will blow, and where you think the elk will come from. It's still a calculated risk because the elk could come from an unexpected direction or the wind could shift at an inopportune time.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 23]

Rockchucker - understood - I guess I'm from the Swede school where I'd rather kill a bull on the 7th day than spend the previous six days running elk out of the area I'm hunting. All it takes is 30 seconds to kill a bull. But the bull needs to be there to kill it.

Where I hunt, there is no "managing" swirling wind. There's only managing the impulse to hunt when the wind is swirling.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby ctdad » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 24]

The place I hunted last year offered swirling winds all of the day except maybe the first and last light. Even then it was swirling some. My ten day hunt would have been pretty boring if I only hunted when the winds were steady. It also would have been much easier if it weren't for wind, as I'm sure many of you would agree with.

That being said, even with a bull bugling 200 yards away, I did back out one evening bc of wind. Never heard or saw that bull again all week so did I really improve my odds? Maybe he smelled me anyway?
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 25]

Jaquomo wrote:Rockchucker - understood - I guess I'm from the Swede school where I'd rather kill a bull on the 7th day than spend the previous six days running elk out of the area I'm hunting. All it takes is 30 seconds to kill a bull. But the bull needs to be there to kill it.

Where I hunt, there is no "managing" swirling wind. There's only managing the impulse to hunt when the wind is swirling.


No argument man....I treestand whitetails and pick my tree based on wind direction. I shower in scent killing soap, spray down with scent killer, and will leave a set if the wind switches. But even hunting whitetails I get aggressive if the situation warrants.

Last year I was set up on a point connecting a river bluff to a creek drainage. It's an excellent rut stand for cruising bucks. I planned to sit all day, but my plan changed when I glassed a rut party in the beanfield across the river a half mile away. A good buck was out in the open chasing a doe and fighting off several smaller bucks.

The safe play was to wait them out and hope she came my way, but I've learned the best time to kill an animal is when you see them. So I ran 3/4 of a mile back to the truck, drove 10 miles around to get access to that spot, parked, ran another mile to get the wind, then crawled and duck walked 400 yards down a ditch to get as close as I could to them. At one point I was in a standoff at 30 yards with a spike who knew I was there but unsure what I was. I couldn't wait on him, so I deliberately spooked him, hoping he would go away from the buck I was after. Luckily he did.

After waiting about 10 minutes after I got in position the doe led that buck by me at 25 yards. I put a 250 grain shockwave through the top of his heart.

The wind at the time was a bit iffy. The doe was just about to hit my scent stream when the shot broke.

You have to be smart about it, but aggressiveness kills animals.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 26]

It has been well over 20 years since I took my son out on his first elk hunt. At that time he was restless and eager to make an elk kill.
One evening we sighted a herd of elk in a basin. There was about 10 cows and a large herd bull bedded in the meadow. I suggested we skirt along above them in the timber as we would be totally exposed by coming in from below. As we advanced I was monitoring the wind. It would be crucial to keep track of where it was blowing, if we were going to make a successful stalk. The wind was steady. I observed it by watching a piece of surveyor's ribbon that some F.S. employee had left hanging on a bush. The timber we were slipping through came in fairly close to where the elk were laying just about 100 yards in front of us. If we could advance another 75 yards it would land us just 50 yards above the elk, but we should be able to sneak closer, through some 4-5 foot tall brush. That would get us in a position to get a shot at the bull.
"Hold up", I whispered to Luke. "We needed to stop and wait." The wind was going to betray us if we went any farther, I advised. Where we were, we would be in reasonably safe hiding. There was just a slight risk of a significant wind shift then. Luke understood my warning, but said, "no, lets move on. We need to get closer". I just stood and let him go. I figured the lesson would do him good.
Sure enough he made it about 40 more yards when the elk busted out of there in a stampede. We never saw them for the next week as we continued our hunt. Lesson learned.
I notice on this thread that four old timers (maybe just gas bags :D ), with well over 100 elk kills between them, each hauling home elk nearly every year, are all advising patience. Each has probably made more mistakes individually than the younger hunters here have made, combined. They have learned through experience that there are times, when pushing ahead too soon will not only ruin the stalk, but will send the elk off to where you will never encounter them again. But it gets worse. You can educate them too, if you combine poor hunting practices with calling.

My original thought here was that calling when we have not learned basis hunting skills is one of the worst mistakes hunters make. I would also add, that a world champion elk caller, who can stand on a stage and make the greatest elk sounds is nothing on an elk hunt if he/she has not learned solid hunting skills.
There are many reasons people throw caution to the wind and push ahead when trying to get an elk. I have to say, I know of no good one. I have not read a good reason on this thread. The other day Jacuomo posted a story on another thread about a fellow squeezing a Hoochie Moma with the cadence of a metronome. Likely he had the mindset that he was out hunting and not camping. Maybe he did not realize that he had other options while hunting. When pursuing elk in high risk situations learn patience. Nothing is gained from blowing them out of your area. Nothing is gained by developing the smartest elk in the State. Luck is always a factor on every hunt. Those hunters who are consistent, have learned to minimize it.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 27]

Swede, I agree with everything you just posted. There was no point pushing that wind, because it wasn't an "iffy" wind, it was a bad wind. And you couldn't circle to get around because of the meadow. Waiting them out was the right call.

There is a difference between taking a calculated risk and being aggressive when the situation warrants, and busting elk when you had no real chance of getting close.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 28]

This may seem strange in a way, but I actually appreciate all of the objections to what has been advocated here. It is obvious when I am out hunting, and witness what hunters are doing, for what ever their reasoning, they are pushing elk off of the public land. They must share the objections voiced on this thread and many more. At the same time the critters are being better educated and even more caution in the future. As objections are raised and dealt with here, I hope the virtues of the stealth and patience message comes through clearly. Elknut has been a big advocate of being aggressive. I know of no disagreement. Still, I am very sure he would never suggest throwing caution to the wind in our pursuit of elk. A hunter may get lucky once is a blue moon while disregarding the need to avoid being seen or scented by the elk, but the odds are heavy against you. Hopefully you never waste precious hunting time, and not only will readers here have more close encounters, but you will have more disgustingly heavy pack outs.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 29]

Well said Swede. Back to my original point, aggressiveness kills elk, but stealth and sneakiness kills elk too. Experience teaches you to balance the two and use each in the correct situation.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 30]

One thing it took me about 15 years of elk hunting to truly understand was how many elk we were inadvertently blowing out by pressing things in "iffy" wind. Only when we started hunting more open country was that lesson delivered, and delivered hard. We'd learned to bowhunt deer, when being scented meant only bumping them up the draw or over the ridge.

Watching elk I never knew were anywhere around blow out of basins and literally run into the next county and hunting unit after scenting me or a hunting partner in swirling mid-day wind really triggered our investigation into what actually takes place in in the elk woods when humans intrude. Smoke bomb tests have confirmed it. When we were hunting heavy timber during mid-day, we now understand why our elk seemed to disappear after a few days, even though everybody swore they hadn't "spooked" any. We were spooking them and educating them and didn't know it.

I agree that being aggressive can sometimes kill elk - when every other condition is in place to allow it. But being aggressive at the wrong time can also wreck an elk spot and can educate dozens of elk if the wind variable is wrong. Rockchucker gets it that you have to pick the time and place - and also evaluate your level of desperation (ie.. last day of the hunt). Personally, my level of desperation doesn't increase until the last couple hours of the season, because I've killed too many on the last day to not believe.. This discussion sort of reminds me of the guys who insist cigarette smoke doesn't bother elk because they've killed a couple while sitting in a tree or a blind and smoking.

Wa Whitey, forgot to answer your question about how close you can get, but I've had several sniff the end of my arrow on the string. Once I had a five point bull actually step over my outstretched leg while feeding when I was lying beside a log. I could hear his stomach gurgling. The craziest thing was when I watched a cow actually come up behind my partner in a crosswind and tug on the hood of his camo sweatshirt with her teeth. It was unbelievable. My closest shot is 3 yards, but I've killed a number at under ten. Last herd bull was at seven. I've also watched them get a whiff at 150 yards and run like they were on fire - after showering with green soap and putting on clean clothes, scent-killer, etc.. Nothing will truly mask the gas produced by bacteria on the outside of the skin, and that's what they smell coming from us old "gas bags".
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 31]

Once upon a time Swede and a new elk hunter were on a ridge and a bull bugles from the valley below.

The newbie says 'Let's get down there and chase that bull!'

Swede replies, 'Let's walk down there and kill him....'
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 06 27, 2013 •  [Post 32]

cnelk wrote:Once upon a time Swede and a new elk hunter were on a ridge and a bull bugles from the valley below.

The newbie says 'Let's get down there and chase that bull!'

Swede replies, 'Let's walk down there and kill him....'


Like a well thought out plan or a well placed broad head, on the mark ;)
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 33]

Jaquomo wrote:Watching elk I never knew were anywhere around blow out of basins and literally run into the next county and hunting unit after scenting me or a hunting partner in swirling mid-day wind really triggered our investigation into what actually takes place in in the elk woods when humans intrude. Smoke bomb tests have confirmed it. When we were hunting heavy timber during mid-day, we now understand why our elk seemed to disappear after a few days, even though everybody swore they hadn't "spooked" any. We were spooking them and educating them and didn't know it.


I'd like to hear more about the smoke bomb tests. Did you do them, or was it a research project? Sounds really interesting.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby ElkNut1 » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 34]

Bucking the wind to get to elk & allowing them to use their finest resource for defense is not advised & should not be labeled as an "aggressive action" It would be a foolish move on a hunters part to ignore such a keen sense that most game animals are equipped with. The hunt hard hunt smart hunter would not easily fall into such a trap!

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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 35]

Rockchucker, smoke bomb tests are wonderful for showing the way wind currents change along terrain, thermals, etc.. We use the little round colored fireworks bombs. Obviously this might be difficult for you since you don't live in elk country. We do it in the off-season. If a partner can get up above on a a ridge or across a valley and can watch how the smoke dissipates, it sometimes shows surprising results. Like the smoke headed one way where it's emitting, then wrapping back around in the opposite direction when it crosses over the first little rise. We've even seen it zig-zag back and forth across a valley.

I used to think glassing from on top of the lip of an extremely steep basin with steady wind would blow my scent out over the basin and away from any elk that might be directly below me. Uh Uh. It actually vortexes over and follows the terrain down, even on an almost vertical pitch, until the sun hits the bottom of the basin and warms the air.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 36]

Jaquomo, that is a smart idea! If you hunted the same areas year after year it could really give you an advantage.

It's weird what the wind will do sometimes. I know for a fact that if you're up on top of a ridge with a steady strong wind at your back that animals down the hill in front of you will smell you, so that matches your experience. What happens is the strong wind above creates a vacuum below which sucks the air down the hill, and it then vortexes and actually comes back up the hill toward you. So sometimes you can actually go down the hill 100 yards and have the wind in your face whereas back on top it's at your back.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Z Barebow » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 37]

I used to carry smoke in a bottle. It only gives you a view for several feet from where you are standing.

I now use milkweed in a film canister. (You know, those small black containers which held film that you took to the drug store for them to develop! LOL!) With seed removed, this stuff carries. I can see it at 100 yards. I have had my eyes opened. I used to sit in certain spots, thinking my scent was being pushed one way, yet the milkweed would change course and move "upwind" for great distances. What the wind does on high ground and what goes on in draws is two different things.

For me, critters might forgive what they think they see. They may move around, utilizing their other senses for coorboration before they bug out.They have zero tolerance for smelling you.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 38]

Not going to do any smoke bomb tests right now in the new area we're scouting. As dry as it is in CO, we might have a bomber dropping slurry on us within minutes!

I don't worry too much about being seen these days. If I do get busted, I just drop down on all fours, grab the elk hat off the back of my pack, put it on and become a feeding cow while making a few calming mews. If a cow reaches out to me I'll talk her down off the ledge, and they almost always go back to what they were doing before.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Swede » 06 28, 2013 •  [Post 39]

Jacuomo: I do not remember you posting a picture of you with your hat, on this forum. Can you post one here so we can all see it? I have no doubt about the relative merits of your hat, but I still get a laugh every time I see it. Thanks in advance.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby RockChucker30 » 06 29, 2013 •  [Post 40]

I'd like to see it as well. Is it like the antelope hat I saw on a tv show once? Looked like a head with ears and all?
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby bnsafe » 06 29, 2013 •  [Post 41]

cant speak for elk, but the turkeys back home completely changed over the 30 years I hunted them. when I first started hunting them you could do about whatever you wanted an they would come. I loved to be aggressive because I liked the sounds I was making and impressed myself, and I killed a lot of turkeys because other guys were quiet and more traditional in their approach. over the years so many other guys started hunting them and the turkeys got very educated on calls and frankly quit gobbling. I saw two gobblers once running away from me as hard as they could go after I made a aggressive call. after a few very tough years of not killing anything I finally went back to calling very softly and sparingly, and I started killing turkeys again, because once again I was going against the grain of what everybody else was doing. back to the thread, all that happened because guys educated turkeys instead of hunting them, I would see guys out there before season calling in gobblers they were gonna hunt the next week, duh. use good hunting technique, and calling is a good technique, the right way and you will kill more of whatever you are chasing.
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Sight & Scent

Postby Huntography » 06 29, 2013 •  [Post 42]

Agree. This applies to virtually all types of hunting. If you can't read sign, understand topography and how to find good spots, understand thermals, know how to escape and use hunting pressure to your advantage, position yourself in the woods for a good shot, no gadget or call can really help you become a great hunter.

Gotta know the basics. And knowing the lay of the land is so important. If you're on new land, learning how to interpret what you're seeing is key.

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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 07 01, 2013 •  [Post 43]

Swede and Rockchucker, I'd be happy to post some pics of the deer and elk hats except I can't figure out how to post photos on this site. I get bounced back because they're too big (mp) and not sure how to make them lower resolution so the site will accept them. Advice?

My hats were made by my wife long before the "Be The Decoy" guys got off the ground. They actually used my photos on their website as promo, without my permission. Now they make an elk hat and suit too, I think. I copied the idea from Ishi, except he didn't have craft foam back then so he had to use a real doe cape. Amazing tools when used properly. I wouldn't hunt without them anymore, especially when combined with the Elk Mountain Slip system.

People laugh sometimes, but they can't argue with the success we've had. My hunting partner thought it was the stupidest thing he'd ever seen (the deer hat) until he watched me deke three P&Y muley bucks into bow range within the first 30 minutes of using it. By the next weekend, he had a deer hat too.
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 07 01, 2013 •  [Post 44]

Lou
Email me the pics.
I will resize and post for you
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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby cnelk » 07 01, 2013 •  [Post 45]

Here is a pic of Lou with his 'hat'...

and a nice bull :)


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Re: Sight & Scent

Postby Jaquomo » 07 01, 2013 •  [Post 46]

Thanks, Brad. I need a lesson next time we have a beer.. :)

Adding to the above, I wear a brown camo headcover so my face doesn't shine,(usually Spandoflage) and also wear a Mossy Oak Brush colored sweatshirt, which at a distance is a nice mottled-tan "elk color".

One thing that's very important is to remember to turn the hat to the side a little so I can draw my bow. Otherwise the string comes right back into the nose if it's facing straight forward. Those of you who followed my live plains muley hunt last fall on that other "channel" know what happens when I draw the string into the nose of the hat! :?
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