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On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

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On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby mtnmutt » 05 03, 2013 •  [Post 1]

This may sound like a really stupid question. I was wondering how everyone approaches a day in the woods when scouting for elk in Summer before hunting season? I am currently planning my weekends for summer scouting. I may only have 3 weekends to hit 3 different places. 2 days each at each area.

Do you get up before first light and start hitting places you may on opening day?

Cover a lot of territory as fast as possible by hiking fast through the woods to elk destination spots?

Do you wait until early or late August to scout your favorite area?

I must admit, I have not run into elk while scouting. Mostly just lots of sign, however, I usually don't get started until 8 or 9 am in Summer.

I am thinking of trying out some ambush spots while scouting. Just sit there quietly for an hour like I would on opening day.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby easeup » 05 03, 2013 •  [Post 2]

mutt, you can DQ my reply since I am a NR and never get to scout anyway, but if I could......

It starts with GE, so I know what the country looks like before I got there. maps in my pocket. GPS too with new batts. I would cover as much ground as possible. I am checking for heavy use trails, water, grass, sheep, and cows, fresh poop, and of course...the beast himself.
walkin like a mad man. what is good what is bad. Finding lots of bad is good, dont go back there.
go check some north slopes for the game trails too. Look for easy in and out trails from a camp location also.

so I would not hunt when you should be scouting.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 05 03, 2013 •  [Post 3]

mtnmutt - A few questions.

Is this a road-less area(ie wilderness)? Have you hunted these area's before? Are you just strictly an ambush hunter or do you call?

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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby JimKirk » 05 03, 2013 •  [Post 4]

I went out scouting today. I had some areas in mind and am hunting a new unit. I looked at some know areas in the unit on the map, marked some likely looking spots on my topo program. loaded them into my gps and drove my fourwheeler as close as I could get to the areas. I then walked into these spots to have a look. the sign I am looking for at this time of the year is typically trails and rubs. some tracks but I don't worry too much about those at this point since some areas just melted out and the elk haven't moved into these areas yet. I found water, rubs and old droppings so know the area holds fall potential. My camera's will tell me if the area is in use this summer. I think even a non resident would benefit hugely from just a single scouting trip over the summer.
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Postby mtnmutt » 05 03, 2013 •  [Post 5]

It is wilderness and NF within 2 miles of wilderness. Closest road is 1/2 mile away. I would be 1/2 miles to 4 miles from a road.

I have already hunted 2 of the 3 areas. In those 2 areas, I know their travel routes, feeding and bedding areas. Unfortunately, these 2 areas are not good areas after ML starts. Therefore, trying to find 3rd hunting location for late season.

It is too risky to leave a trail camera, so that is out.

I have not really tried ambush, but elknut suggested it because of my hearing loss. I can't hear the elk call back to my calling.

In the past, I only did cold calling. I have since learned that I need to make adjustments on setups and the way I call. I will look for cold calling locations and ambush locations while scouting.

3rd area is in wilderness and is a little new to me. It would likely be a backpack trip hunting the last weekend of the season. It is a bit secluded. I scouted it with GE and the surrounding areas on foot north and west of the new spot I lined up. It has potential, but I don't really know the area or the elk patterns there.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby ElkNut1 » 05 04, 2013 •  [Post 6]

mtnmutt, I totally believe in my heart as a lone hunter an ambush is the key to your successful & consistent success. August is when I'd be the most serious about the elks whereabouts & their movements. Question? Is August still a time you feel your trail camera may be stolen? Generally there are not many folks out there putting in the leg work.

I like cameras at times for sure but I will be doing a lot of glassing in specific areas of concern early & late! Is it possible in your area to get to elevated spots so you can glass the ambush sites out from afar? For instance, if there are mountain tops in the vicinity within 3-4 miles or closer where you can look over the general vicinity you plan your ambushes you can see what their movements are & what times, early or late! You do not disturb anything in the process yet it's a great way to scout. You know when you are scouting via glassing you do not have to see the exact setup spot you wish to be, being able to scan the area of entrances or exits are just as valuable since all you want to really know is "are they using the area". A set of 10X42 binos & an inexpensive spotting scope is worth its weight in gold at these times. The nice thing too about this type of glassing is you find elk in other areas that you may not have considered? Finding elk at the time of your hunt is key here, seeing their movements & where they go & why can really play into your hand very well. Just some food for thought! Bottom line, really focus on those ambush spots, this is your year!!!!

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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby mtnmutt » 05 04, 2013 •  [Post 7]

elknut, Good Point on trail cams. The 2nd weekend in August is typically the last BIG camping weekend (Aug 10/11th) for people along the Front Range. I could go 2 weekends (Aug 16th) before opening weekend (Aug 31st) and try out 1-2 trail cams. That is a good idea. The deeper spots are probably safer for a trail cam. If I had climbing gear, I could hoist myself up to set the camera high and angle it down.

Glassing from the ridge may work. You definitely can glass down the N, NE, S and SE directions from the ridge. For the other directions where I hunt on the West side, it may not be as easy to see into that area from the ridge. I wonder if that is why most hunters stay up on the ridge and mostly hunt the N, NE, SE because they can't see into the West side very well. It is much harder to hike down the West side from the ridge because its very steep with thick timber.

Unfortunately, getting up to the ridge does requires a high clearance, atv or your legs. I already pushed the limits last year on my 2002 midsize SUV on a 4x4 trail and cracked a couple plastic covers. I have great tires, WildCountry SUV, but the clearance thing is limiting. Sometimes people will stop and let you hitch a ride up and down. The hike up is a steep 2 mile hike 2,000 ft elevation gain. Nice training hike. If I can swing 2 trips to that area, I will try the ridge glassing. You have to be off the ridge before t-storms. Last year, I found that very limiting for my scouting.

Now I just have to find the cash to buy all this new gear that I had not planned on this year. I need a cheaper hobby :roll:
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby ElkNut1 » 05 05, 2013 •  [Post 8]

A question I'd have is do you have to get to the very top to be able to glass? Can you get part way up & yet be high enough to still see decent into your desired spot?

All the areas I glass from I walk into I'm not able to drive them. Just letting you know it's common to have to walk to the area needed to have good elevation to glass from. 2000' climb would be a very tough one though. (grin)

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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby mtnmutt » 05 05, 2013 •  [Post 9]

Elknut, wow, you just gave me an idea. There is this old steep burn area that doesn't have much vegetation. It faces SW into my hunting area. It may be high enough at 10,800 ft to see in that direction. The other areas are too thick with trees until you reach treeline to see into my hunting area.

The burn area is about 1/2 to 3/4 mile to get to a good vantage point. Not bad at all. Very doable. I will try that.

All the other mountain tops in the area are in Wilderness, including the ridge, therefore not accessible by vehicle and a very long hike to get to their timberlines.

Thanks!
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby Swede » 05 06, 2013 •  [Post 10]

Personally, I don't care if I see an elk while scouting. I would rather they did not know I was back. I too set out cameras, but what I look for first is fresh sign (tracks & feces) and rubs. The rubs can be old or new. In mid-late August I like to see some fresh rubs, and fresh well used water holes and wallows. I have to be careful to not mistake cattle use for elk. It is not difficult, but grazed grass or muddy water need to be checked. Early and late in the day you can check bedding areas to look for fresh sign, but don't hang around and admire it. Most of the time I'm in no hurry to get to where I am scouting. If the elk are there, I will see the evidence. The cameras will tell me if there some big boys are hanging out in the vicinity.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby mtnmutt » 05 06, 2013 •  [Post 11]

Fortunately, no cattle in the area. Did that once down south. Never again will I hunt in cattle country.

I seem to notice new tracks more than feces, especially with hunting the same area multiple days in a row. Helps if we get rain during hunting to see the new tracks.

For feces, I had read that the pancake patty ones were summer elk because of the higher moisture in their summer feed. For last year's drought, I did not see any patty style. There are absolutely no cattle in my current hunting locations since it is Wilderness, so I know it is elk when I see those patties. They just weren't there last year. The grass was very dry.

In the past, I have not noted fresh rubs much. I will start adding those to my notes.

The overwhelming advice is trail cams. I will see if I can swing buying 2 of them and set them out in August.

Thank you all.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby Swede » 05 06, 2013 •  [Post 12]

If you get a camera for a trail, where elk will be passing by, then get one with a fast trigger. If you set up at a water hole or other destination, then a fast trigger is not important.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby easeup » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 13]

this is a good thread subject.....
I want to a also add a few different twist for our guys that hunt in the more arid regions like NM.
I have had the chance to hunt in those desert rocky regions of western NM a couple of times and it was like switching gears to find the elk.
At that point in life looking for poop was like as mentioned above - plenty of moisture makes for plenty poop and so forth. It is not that way in some places.

If you hunt lower arid brushland or the drier desert regions for your elk, those poop signs are different. the seeds are smaller and scattered out and ried up looking. Sign is much harder to find because of the gravely soil and chip rock everywhere. You will not find an elk patty at all unless you stumbled across an oasis.
Scouting for that area.....look at the game trails for tracks in the dust and best yet....find the watering holes...everything happens there.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby cnelk » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Do you get up before first light and start hitting places you may on opening day?
YES

Cover a lot of territory as fast as possible by hiking fast through the woods to elk destination spots?
YES

Do you wait until early or late August to scout your favorite area?
NO. I go in July and then again in August


I have said it before. I look for rubs. They last a long time, and they are made during the time I will be hunting.
Poop is good too, but you dont know when it was made.
Pellet poop is typically made after the grass/feed has dried up after the frosts. 'Piles' of poop are made when the grass is still fresh and green.

If you see aspen trees that have been stripped of bark that would be a wintering ground/late spring area but there are areas that I hunt that hold elk all year.

I am going to be scouting another new spot in my area this summer. There are only 3 ways to get into it.
I will only be looking for rubs, wind/thermal direction and how long it takes to access it, and good setup spots to call.
Any elk I see, or wallows I find I will consider a bonus as I know there are elk there during season.
I will only scout it for one day then go back in August to do my final review and make my game plan
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby Swede » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Some good points Cnelk. You are correct about the poop thing, but I thought everyone knows how to tell the age of elk droppings. You have to bite some. The old ones crunch when you chew on them, like a cracker and the fresh ones are more chewy like milk duds. In addition the old ones take on a stale flavor. :D
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby mtnmutt » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 16]

cnelk wrote:I have said it before. I look for rubs. They last a long time, and they are made during the time I will be hunting.
Poop is good too, but you dont know when it was made.
Pellet poop is typically made after the grass/feed has dried up after the frosts. 'Piles' of poop are made when the grass is still fresh and green.

If you see aspen trees that have been stripped of bark that would be a wintering ground/late spring area but there are areas that I hunt that hold elk all year.


Thank you all for your great advice.

I did not know about the frost. Last season, there was a heavy frost the 2nd or 3rd weekend. With the drought, I never saw poop patties.

As for aspen stripping. In my area, it mainly occurs in heavy snow years: 2007/2008 and 2010/2011. Last year, I saw very little of it because it was was a low snow year. This is also a low snow year but the drought may have pushed them to aspen bark eating.

Swede, I was wondering when some one was going to trick a newbie into tasting elk poop. I was told it is only fresh if you see steam rising from it.

easeup made a very interesting point how scouting for elk sign is different in different states and terrain.
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby Swede » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 17]

I must confess my joke about chewing on elk manure, was simply for entertainment. I have real faith that no one here is foolish enough to eat manure, no matter who suggests it, especially an old joker. :D
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Re: On the ground Elk Scouting, what do you do?

Postby Trophyhill » 05 07, 2013 •  [Post 18]

easeup wrote:this is a good thread subject.....
I want to a also add a few different twist for our guys that hunt in the more arid regions like NM.
I have had the chance to hunt in those desert rocky regions of western NM a couple of times and it was like switching gears to find the elk.
At that point in life looking for poop was like as mentioned above - plenty of moisture makes for plenty poop and so forth. It is not that way in some places.

If you hunt lower arid brushland or the drier desert regions for your elk, those poop signs are different. the seeds are smaller and scattered out and ried up looking. Sign is much harder to find because of the gravely soil and chip rock everywhere. You will not find an elk patty at all unless you stumbled across an oasis.
Scouting for that area.....look at the game trails for tracks in the dust and best yet....find the watering holes...everything happens there.


Sounds a lot like the area in the Gila I hunted last year :)
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