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"Very callable"

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"Very callable"

Postby JGH » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 1]

I started a thread below entitled "Buzz".

In there, ElkNut referred to a situation wherein he said elk would be "very callable".

As a novice, this really got me thinking. I need to put myself in the best situations to make things work (rather than an experienced hunter, who maybe is willing to hunt low-density areas as long as there are large herd bulls there.)

So ... what are the "most callable" situations? What are the "least callable" situations?

FWIW, I'll be hunting weekends early in the season, then all week the 3rd week of September, so I'm confining my thoughts primarily to bow season, but to the entire season, not just the rut.

I just want to put myself in the best situations, and avoid the low-percentage ones. Like ElkNut said, he'd avoid calling to moving elk 150 yards away from him. I would like to think I would avoid that, too, but I could see myself thinking that that might be reasonable in the heat of the moment.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby >>>---WW----> » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 2]

John, if you aren't real picky, the most callable elk I can think of would have to be a spike bull that is all by himself. And you don't have to be super extra close in order to make him come to you. They just babies and one that is alone is always looking for companionship. Spike squeals or cow mews will bring them on the run.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby cnelk » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 3]

Here is my little secret...
I go up in the late summer and call elk in really close, scratch them behind the ear and send them on their way.
When season comes around, all I need to do is call a little bit and they come running in to get more affection... :)

IN all seriousness:
WW is correct. Spikes come in really easy. Cows and raghorns the next easiest.
In 2011, I called in 37 elk in just over a week of hunting with my buddies, some were spikes, others were mostly cows and raghorns, only a couple bulls that would be 'respectable' in most hunter's book.

Late morning seems to work best for bringing in a cow.
Early morning / evenings for bulls
Spikes just about anytime

In mornings we make big 'loops' and have certain places we setup to call. The wind is predictable or known in those spots and elk are typically pretty close [~200yds].
We would only let elk, seen or heard, change our plan of attack each day.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby buglmin » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 4]

The most callable situations are when you find small bulls that has been chasd from the herd and are lonely. These bulls are the kind that come running into the calls. They want companionship, and will come storming into cow calls.
Another situation is when you find a big bull on the prowl, one looking for cows. These bulls might of lost their cows sometime during the night and want more cows, and will readily answer cow calls and small bull squeals. These bulls come in aggressively, looking to gather the cows and run the smaller bull off.

Anybody, at any time, can kill a big bull. All it takes is being in the right place at the right time...but its up to you to put yourself in that place.
In NM in 2007, I killed my biggest bull to date by learning what these bulls did for four days before setting a treestand and killing a huge bull the next morning as he came up the old road headed to bed following his cows. Right place, right time...
In Utah, after days of chasing and passing up 330" bulls, I finally killed a big 358" bull as he left his wallow. This bull did the same thing every day, and a trail camera comfirmed what we needed to know. We slipped into the area at 1:30 the next afternoon, and at 3:15, on his way back to his bedded cows, he chose to talk by me at 27 yards. Right place, right time...
I tell my clients every morning that today could be the day, but its up to them to be there when it happens. Because of your limited time in the field, use whatever you can to increase the odds in your favor. Chasing herd bulls with cows could be a waste of a day, unless you can get in front of him. Yessir, its fun to listen to them screaming at you. But the odds of him coming back into you is very low.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 5]

So ... what are the "most callable" situations? What are the "least callable" situations?

Good stuff here gentlemen. My .02, with the time the OP mentioned he will be hunting is the following. Most callable? The weekends in the early season is prime time to get herd gathering bulls (big and small) to come into calls. The dudes are on the prowl and looking to get their group thing on :). If hunting pressure is minimal, and, you're calling is on the mark this is when you get the legendary screamers, or even the quiet ones, running in hard to check you out. The entire third week the OP will be hunting is well into when "herding up" has been mostly accomplished so bulls are more reluctant to leave the confines of the group of girls they have attached themselves to.. You'll need to get very close and light them up if calling is the plan.. Satellites are even reluctant to leave the groups/herds of ladies to distant calling in many situations. Just my thoughts ;) Buglemin hit on some very, very good stuff... Although I've offered what I've considered the norm in my experience, you never, ever know what will happen when you sing a song in the elk woods, regardless of time of season.. Nock and arrow, scream a challenge, and be ready :o Best of luck to you this fall friend.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby mongopino915 » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 6]

buglmin wrote:The most callable situations are when you find small bulls that has been chasd from the herd and are lonely. These bulls are the kind that come running into the calls. They want companionship, and will come storming into cow calls.
Another situation is when you find a big bull on the prowl, one looking for cows. These bulls might of lost their cows sometime during the night and want more cows, and will readily answer cow calls and small bull squeals. These bulls come in aggressively, looking to gather the cows and run the smaller bull off.

Anybody, at any time, can kill a big bull. All it takes is being in the right place at the right time...but its up to you to put yourself in that place.
In NM in 2007, I killed my biggest bull to date by learning what these bulls did for four days before setting a treestand and killing a huge bull the next morning as he came up the old road headed to bed following his cows. Right place, right time...
In Utah, after days of chasing and passing up 330" bulls, I finally killed a big 358" bull as he left his wallow. This bull did the same thing every day, and a trail camera comfirmed what we needed to know. We slipped into the area at 1:30 the next afternoon, and at 3:15, on his way back to his bedded cows, he chose to talk by me at 27 yards. Right place, right time...
I tell my clients every morning that today could be the day, but its up to them to be there when it happens. Because of your limited time in the field, use whatever you can to increase the odds in your favor. Chasing herd bulls with cows could be a waste of a day, unless you can get in front of him. Yessir, its fun to listen to them screaming at you. But the odds of him coming back into you is very low.


Totally agreed but you can kill the big herd bull with cows if you are aggressive. As hunters and elk callers, we should immediately recognize a herd bull with cows on the move away from you and make every physical effort to close the distance. I do not consider myself a great caller by any means but have managed to close the deal on several herd bulls leaving the area with his ladies. This is the time to put on the sprint and close the gap as fast as possible, screaming your way into the herd bull. If you can break the distance to post a threat (i.e. inside the 100 - 120 yard range and being the aggressive intruder coming in to take over the herd), you are in for a bugling challenge treat with a defensive herd bull. This is the ultimate experience in elk calling and killing a big herd bull and something you will never witnessed on Primos. I would rather encounter one herd bull up close than call in five satellites. This is not only method that will work on big herd bulls but it has worked for me repeatedly. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby easeup » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 7]

well said you bunch of gray hair elk slayers.

I will throw another one out there for you to simmer with. What not to do.
read over elknuts play book on how to know a satellite from a herd bull bugle first.
There are many places we hunt where there are not many herd bulls and by mid Sept every little raghorn has a couple of cows and they are spread out everywhere. They may not be talking much either. If you manage to get in and crowd one them, dont even think about bugling back to him....he will take his cows and move them out.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby bowhunterty » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 8]

I think satellite bulls are very callable. Shot my bull this way last year. He was getting beat up by the herd bull and only wanted a cow or two for himself. Used cow calls, specifically the estrus whine. He came in over 400 yds to less then 20 yds where I double lunged him.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 9]

In my book, every encounter is a "callable situation". Doesn't mean every bull responds the same way to certain calls. Example, we've hunted one bull for the past two years. We've named him the growler(because when we are close he loves to growl). We have not been able to call him in, no mater what we tried. But he is callable because he always responds to distant location bugles. This year we are going to slip a shooter into his usual hang out, while I stay a fair distance away and pound the bugles.

Spikes, satellites, and herds bulls all have their Achilles. Once you learn the elk language/habits and paint the picture in the elks mind, you will find every situation is a "very callable" encounter. Spin it and adapt. That's how we are going to give the growler a dirt nap!

Least callable - That time when your 2 miles in, have a hot bull, and then you realize you forgot all your calls in the truck! Stop laughing, it's only happened to me once! :lol:

My 2-cents.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby WapitiTalk1 » 04 22, 2013 •  [Post 10]

JohnFitzgerald wrote: Least callable - That time when your 2 miles in, have a hot bull, and then you realize you forgot all your calls in the truck! Stop laughing, it's only happened to me once! :lol:


I won't tell you how leaving your diaphragms on the dash of a 77 Chev 1/2 ton will melt them given the proper temperature blasting out of the defrost vents :(... I can relate John.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby JGH » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 11]

Thanks for the input, guys.

Very useful information here ... things to keep in mind.

Here's another question -- or maybe the same one asked in a different way:

Would you say that calling is a better option for elk while they are moving or after they have reached a particular destination, such as a feeding area or bedding area?

(I think I know the answer now.) If the answer is "destination", which destinations are best to focus on, or does it matter?
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby ElkNut1 » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 12]

I believe most missed the point here! JGH is asking what makes a "Situation Callable"? He asks this in regards to what was written on another Thread. He asks an excellent question too because many hunters do not know how to put themselves into these callable situations! There is a difference between an ambushing situation & a callable situation, treestand hunting over water, wallow or trails is more of an ambush, it can turn into light calling but doesn't start out that way.

It doesn't matter if it's a spike, cow, satellite or herd bull, point is there are situations that we as hunters can strive for that will give us the upper hand when calling is the best tool & there are other situations where sitting silently is the answer.

Destination spots are absolutely the best to consider because elk are where they want to be & they plan on being there for hours. It's like Turkey hunting, if you see turkeys feeding a certain direction or even spook them & they head a certain way you can get around them setup & with light calling they will come your way nearly everytime. That's a very effective callable situation.

It works for elk as well. Here are some other very good callable situations.

Getting between a bull & his cows!

Bedding areas. Options are countless.

Feeding areas. " " " "

A bull with cows being harassed by one or more satellites.

A screaming match between you & a herd bull.

Dogging a slow moving herd bull heading up to his bed from feeding.

Catching a bull & his cows in their bedding area & hear him glunking as he courts them.

Slipping in on a vocal herd & getting caught by an unseen cow or two.

Knowing bulls/cows are in the area but are silent, use advertising sounds.

Accidentally busting elk from their beds but only one or two see you.

The list goes on, I'm sure several here can add to this list!

What's most important is handling these calling situations correctly, do so & your odds of a close encounter go up!

Equally as important there is a long list of DON'TS!!!! (grin)

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Re: "Very callable"

Postby JGH » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 13]

Thanks, Paul ... yes, it's kind of poorly-worded question, but I think you got it.

How about that list of "Don'ts"?

I think that would be very instructive -- as I would bet that I have committed a few "don'ts" over the years! The elk reinforced that these were bad decisions, but maybe you could, too.
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"Very callable"

Postby JohnFitzgerald » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 14]

Here's some don'ts:

On cold call setups, don't leave too early. Give it time.

On any calling setup, be ready. Elk can come in like ghosts. Don't assume that they'll be talking on their way in.

Don't play poker with a guy named Ace. Oh wait, maybe that doesn't apply. :-)

My 2-cents!
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby JGH » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 15]

Ha!

And don't play pool with an old man who brings his own cue!
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby Heartwood » 04 23, 2013 •  [Post 16]

Just as in turkey calling, callability somtimes depends on the "mood" of the day. Some days elk canbe verry vocal and agrassive (more callable) and other days they can be lock jawed and disinterested. Somtimes the weather can also effect the mood ie. Very windy etc
A few situations where we have found bull elk to be more callable: when a cow in the heard or harem is in estrus, lost cow calls on a cold setup seems to bring in lone spikes at times, getting busted by cows on the fringes of a heard can bring a bull in to investigate somtimes with no calling at all( the bull hears a commotion and wants to see what is going on), getting in super close to a heard bull and playing out the cow that cant come to him because she is being hijacked by a satalite or other unknown bull(in other words, give him a reason why the cow is not coming when he tells her to) this gives him a red ass and he comes running in , calling a satalite bull by impersonating a cow that has strayed from the main heard(satalite thinks this is his chance to grab a cow) we have had them come running in on this one numerous times, early season bugle to a lone bull and he comes to see the unknown bull to size him up. These are situations i have witnessed myself and they are all in the playbook. Thanks paul! He didn't invent elk calling but he sure has explained it so the rest of us can easily undersstand it.
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Re: "Very callable"

Postby ElkNut1 » 04 25, 2013 •  [Post 17]

Matt, no problem, you are welcome.

JGH, a few of the Dont's!

Avoid setups where elk can see source of calling & be out of range!

Avoid calling to elk standing/feeding out in meadows or larger openings.

Avoid calling/bugling your way to bulls at distances over 300yds unless bull is bugling & coming your way at same time.

Avoid calling back to bulls if they bugle while you are on a water hole or wallow in treestand/blind.

Once contact is made through calling get to elk quick, don't expect for elk to come to you from great distances, 300yds or more.

Avoid Bugling/screaming matches elk win them. Instead hook around them to same elevation 50-80yds cow call 3 times excitedly, when he answers challenge him then pant & glunk.

Avoid calling or locating elk while standing in large openings, it's easy for other unseen elk to look your way & you will be spotted!

The list is endless but these are very common mistakes to avoid!

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Re: "Very callable"

Postby JGH » 04 25, 2013 •  [Post 18]

GREAT information there ... thanks, Paul.

I've already managed to learn a few of those lessons on my own ... :oops: ... but I think we focus so much on "what should I do?" that we sometimes for get when to put the BRAKES on.
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