what is your opinion on ultra long range hunting rifles?

[pointysticks]

i am a bowhunter.

but i love rifles. i only have 3 rifles. my most interesting caliber is a .257 weatherby. bought it for the antelope hunt that never happened.

i got to thinking..if i had $10k burning a hole in my pocket (i dont )..i would love a custom long range rifle. a 7mm rem ultra mag..

what do you think of those long range hunters? they are incredible shots, and have wonderful equipment. $10k rifles will never happen in my lifetime, for me..i want one bad,, but i know i would probably never use it the way it was intended..

[Vanish]

I'm not into it. For me, the hunt is all about getting within range.

[idahoghost]

I have seen the 1000yd shots. I know it is possible. But personally, I am not confident enough that for every animal hit, many, many more are never found or recovered. There just is not much energy left at extreme ranges, in my opinion. I have watched elk not even flinch when hit hard 200yds, much less 1200yds.

There is also the wind, tigger pull, breathing, rest, and so many other factors affecting the shot. We as bow hunters would not even consider a 100yd bow shot, even though for some it is possible. All of us have blown seemly sure shots at very close distances, due to factors we did not consider, whether it be mother nature or operator error. I can't see that long range shots with rifles are any different. I cleanly missed two bulls this year by misjudging the distance and we're only talking 45 yds. What happens when you misjudge a 1000yd. target.

Every hunter has a choice and must decide what is ethical shot, regardless of the weapon. In my opinion long range rifle shots are more for bragging rights, than pursusing the hunt.

Silhouettes and ballons are one thing, but big game should demand our respect and deserve clean kills when ever possible. I am not condemning anyone or anything, to each his or hers own. I think we use bow and arrows to learn how to hunt and level the playing field. When I pick up my rifle I use it to kill.

I apologize if this sounds like a rant. It is not, just my opinion. I am and have been very impressed when someone can hit a an eight inch piece of steel at 1000yds. And when the same person missed, I was very happy it did not run off. Long range shots are just like bikinis and speedos, just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

[MTLongdraw]

I hope I don't offend anybody by putting this on here but here is where I sit with this. I'll be honest I have a 7mm and I have contemplated quite a few times buying a high power scope to reach out and take some of these longer shots. From what I've found I could probaby hit/kill effectively out to 800 yards if not farther. Not extremely long range compared to most but a poke none the less. My boss has a big 30 cal of some sort that can reach 1200 yards and allegedly have enough k.e. to kill an elk at that distance. The two things that have discouraged me from it are this; I don't feel shooting an animal from 800-1000+ that has no idea you are there is fair chase. Also in watching Extreme Outter Limits and Best of the West I've found their shot placement is the shoulder, not behind the shoulder. A good hit could likely ruin 2 quarters of meat. Thats not what I want to see.

This is just my opinion.

[LckyTylr]

This is going to come out poorly, but I don't know how else to say it.

I primarily hunt archery. I LOVE to bowhunt, I want to be as close as stinking possible to a critter, that's where I get the rush. However, as it happened this year and ALMOST last year, if I don't get a critter with my bow, after spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on gas, food and tags, I feel pretty darn wasteful coming home to my family empty handed at the end of archery season. I almost feel like I didn't do my part, my wife let me vanish for the better part of 2 months with the expectation that I'd have a good time and that I'd put something in the freezer. After working my tail off during bow season, eating tag soup is not really an option for me. At that point, I pull out my rifle, head to the place where I know I can get on an animal, and I kill it.

I'm NOT saying that I will shoot at any distance to do so, but let's face it, a decent bow hunter with a rifle in his hands . . . . . who is willing to hike a little bit . . . . really has very few excuses for filling his/her tag. IF I had a long range rifle and IF I had the money to practice and become proficient with it, you betcha that I'd take long shots (only as far as I'm comfortable with given conditions and animal body language). At that point, the weapon is the tool and I'm the butcher.

Not a very noble approach to it, but it puts meat in the freezer, and I won't take shots that are irresponsible. Just my thoughts. I'd really prefer to just get it done every year at 10 yards with a bull screaming at me . . . . . but that's not as easy to do.

[>>>---WW---->]

Here is my take on long range stuff. Have you ever heard of ,(The Rule of Three)?

Basically what it is, you sight in your rifle 3 inches high at 100 yards. For (most) big game guns, this should put you close to dead on at 300 yds. So you should be able to hold dead on out to that range. For 400 yds. you can hold just below the backbone and it will drop right in there.

This works for calibers like 7mm Rem, 30.06, 300 Win, 338, and most other calibers that fall into that range. If you can't hit an elk at those ranges, you better hang it up until you learn how to hunt. If you want to shoot farther than that, go to the range and punch paper. JMHO!

[Harmy]

I have never bow hunted (well, as a kid I did shoot a rabbit once). I would bow hunt as I also like to get close. The feeling of sneaking up and calling them in is something really powerful. However, I do not have the kind of time needed to devote to bow hunting that would be necessary, in my opinion, to become a proficient shooter and confident close range hunter. It is rare for me to be able to spend the kind of time I was able to this season but then I had drawn a limited entry tag. I am a one or two weekend a year hunter and have done very well the last 10 years that I have gotten back into it.

I know a lot of bow hunters and a lot of rifle hunters. I have heard of more lost game from bow hunters than of rifle hunters and I have come across dead game and sleketons with arrows still in them but rarely have I found dead ones without arrows in them. Game loss happens to all of us though. Hunt long enough and it will likely happen to nearly everyone some time or another. Is bow hunting truely more ethical than a long distance shot? Depends so much on the hunters abilities in my opinion. For me, adrenaline seems to be more significant at closer distances and thus mistakes seem to be more frequent the closer I am. Practice would help but is the cost of practice on game ethical? At longer distances I can better focus on the task as there is more time and little risk the animal will sense me.

Fair chase? Is it really "fair" of us to hunt an animal that has its brain twisted in circles due to the urge to mate? Is it really fair to hunt animals seeking companionship that make so much noise we can zero in on them from a mile away or more? Hunting the rut is really quite easy for both elk and mule deer as compared to the rifle season. Not that I am any expert though as this was my first year ever to hunt during the rut. All I can say is that in 10 years of hunting elk this was by far the easiest to get close.

As for shooting long range, I am a practicioner. I love it. I can shoot my 300 Ultra Mag quite well out to 800 yards. I would take shots on game up to this distance if the conditions were correct (good solid rest, light to no wind, right body position). I am confident in my 30.06 out to 500 yards but limit my game taking to 350 or less mainly due to wanting to ensure I have sufficient energy transfer. I am confident both could shoot well beyond if I practiced those ranges. Wind is certainly a big factor and when present reduces the range I would be willing to shoot in. But a 3200 ft/sec 210 gr bullet stays on course really quite well in moderte and light winds. Even strong winds out to 350 yards is not something I worry much about with this load.

Meat wasting? A shoulder shot certainly destroys meat. However, in my experience I have lost way more meat due to taking my animal to a processor than from any shot I have taken (including a texas heart shot). This is the number one reason I will always process my own game. I know exactly how to ensure the highest yield, how to reduce lose due to bullet damage, how to keep it clean, how to keep it cool, how to maximize yields across the range of cuts. I use the scraps that wouldn't even make it into burger (making sauces and stocks).

If I had the time though, I would jump whole heartedly into bow hunting and suspect that once I had done so and experienced more close encouters the frequency with which I bring out the big gun would probably become so low it would never get used...

For me its all hunting. My purpose is to fill the freezer. Eating is why I hunt. Hunting is not why I hunt. Hunting is not my vacation as my wife so frequently points out. Trophies on the wall are not why I hunt (although the wife told me I HAD to mount my bull???). It's all about harvesting and therfore I will do it in the most proficient way I can.

[Swede]

I am not opposed to long range hunting rifles, but it is not for me. If I had $10k that was needing to be spent on hunting, it would go for a good guided elk hunt.

[Swede]

A point was made in an earlier post that I would like to address here. I went into the butcher shop a few fears ago and saw a display of broadheads set out for anyone and everyone to see. I assumed correctly that they were removed from game animals that were brought in to be butchered. As I talked with the butcher, I asked if they found more healed over broadheads in animals or bullets. He said they remove far more old bullets. Lets face it taking high risk shots is not based on the equipment we hunt with. It is an attitude problem.

[LckyTylr]

Very interesting Swede. Not what I would have expected. I have found one BH lodged in an old Bucks spine (shot angle must have been straight down) and I shot a buck last year that had been shot right in the rear, square in the hind quarter and BH was lodged in the hip socket. That buck was hurting pretty bad when I found him.

[JoeH2o]

10K to spend on a rifle, I'd have to get a McMillan .338 Lapua! Why? I have no idea, just want one. I don't think I would use it for hunting big game. I might use it for long distant varmit hunting, or just shooting rocks at 1000yds+. I'd love to split a wolf in half with it .

[pointysticks]

10K to spend on a rifle, I'd have to get a McMillan .338 Lapua! Why? I have no idea, just want one. I don't think I would use it for hunting big game. I might use it for long distant varmit hunting, or just shooting rocks at 1000yds+. I'd love to split a wolf in half with it .

yup..the new custom mcmillians look SWEET!! but swede is wise. $10k would get you to alaska for a lifetime adventure. not stopping me from WANTING a nice rifle.

[Harmy]

Not sure why you would need to spend $10k on a long range rifle (OK, I "want" one too but my "needs" didn't let me). There are numerous non-custom systems that are capable of sub .75 MOA or even better. Most shooters are less accurate than their rifles are anyway. My REM Sendero .300 Ultra Mag cost about $1100 new and I know there are way better deals out there. Good optics double that price, plus some (I have bad eyes so good optics are critical to me). Reloading gear adds another few hundred. Still only 25% of the $10k and I am sure you can find better deals than I did. Your effective range is dependent on both the rifle and more importantly on the shooter's abilities to shoot and read the conditions.

I agree with Swede's comment about more lost game with Rifle Hunters in general (I have just seen quite a few lost archery carcasses in my travels hunting, climbing, and mushroom gathering). There are far more Rifle Hunters out there. In my experience there is a much higher percentage of competent Bow Hunters than of Rifle hunters. Plus, the increased range likely gives rifle hunters a far higher frequency of game engagement. Therefore, there are way more rifle hunters flinging lead who do not know what they are really doing. I am sure that my personal observations in finding dead animals with arrows in them is not the norm.

[Lefty]

We dont have it in the budget for such a great gun
But I really enjoy lobbing .22 bullets from a hill to the waters edge at 300-600 yards.

[ferris bugler]

I am impressed by long range shooting abilities, but to me it is not humane and is not hunting.

[Magic]

Here is my take on long range stuff. Have you ever heard of ,(The Rule of Three)?

Basically what it is, you sight in your rifle 3 inches high at 100 yards. For (most) big game guns, this should put you close to dead on at 300 yds. So you should be able to hold dead on out to that range. For 400 yds. you can hold just below the backbone and it will drop right in there.

Bill, I agree with what you said, but there is one more "3". Many folks that are hunting are shooting a 3" group at 100 yards. Extend that out to 300-400 yards, add a bit of wind drift, and you have a high possibility for a gut shot/wounded/lost animal.

[Harmy]

I support the rule of 3 except I use a modified rule of 6". Meaning I have a 6 diameter diameter target that I have to be able to hit. This is the first criteria I have to meet. This then determines my effective range. The rule of 3 is used to determine if and how much hold-over to use with non-turret scopes. Effective range is dependent on many factors (animal position and movement, gun, ammo, bullets, shooting/body position, wind, breath, light, rifle support, etc.). For example, shooting from a standing position with no sticks or tree to rest the gun against I am at about 100 yards (more likely less as the amount of coffee now becomes a factor too-not that great-or further depending on how many jack rabbits I went after before the season). Standing with shooting sticks I am at about 200 yards. Sitting with sticks-300 yards. Prone with tripod and rear rest with a 22 power scope and minimal wind-600 yards. With refinement of variables maybe farther.

[Wapiti]

I'm all about the hunt and getting close. I prefer my bow and haven't looked at my gun in ten years !! I just do not see the fun in shooting out to 1000 yards at a live animal. A target for sure but not a live animal !! I really hate seeing it on hunting show's as well and they jump up and down that they made the shot !! To me there is just no sport in that !!

[CrazyElkHunter]

I'm a bowhunter, and have been for 45 years. I have no desire or even like watching someone shoot a animal at a 1000 yards. Not trying to push buttons, but to me that makes you a good marksman, not a good hunter. I've shot 100's of animals with a bow during that time including 26 elk. I like getting close, not shooting from 1 zip code to another. Just my preference.

[buglmin]

First of all, in long range shooting, you dont guess the yardage, you use range finders. And you measure the wind speed and hold for wind speed. You dont just guess the yardage and start shooting. Most guys that shoot long range practice a lot, know their guns and loads better then most guys know their bows and arrows. I had a chance to guide the Best Of The West guys in 2009 on a mule deer hunt in SW Colorado. I really enjoyed being around them, listening to them tell of their equipment, and loved seeing these boys shoot. Most of these guys are as good a hunter as there is, but their love of guns and their knowledge makes them very very deadly.
There was one guy here talking of missing two bulls cause he misjudged the yardage? Should he of been shooting 45 yards? What was his effective range? Was he using the right equipment? Was he qualified to be shooting that distance?
Most long range shooters are artists, and it doesnt matter if you shoot a gun or bow. And in order to be good at long distance, it takes a lot of practice and perfectly matched gear and form. It takes know how...these guys never settle for 'close enough' when it comes to their equipment. Maybe you should take the time to spend time with these guys, watch them work. And it holds true with guys shooting archery equipment...