3D Target Rings . . . What Gives!

[LckyTylr]

So, I have been in a winter league for 3 months now and we have been shooting McKenzie targets, this weekend I shot an outdoor tourny in Eagle Idaho with a different brand of targets. I'm a little frustrated, 3D shooting is supposed to get us ready for Hunting season in that it presents various shot angles, distances and obstructions, but shot placement on most 3d targets is AWFUL!

So, what are the manufacturers trying to accomplish with their "11 rings"? I would very seldom intentionally place my arrow where the 11 ring is located on most 3D targets, they almost always seem to be too high and too far back. I would understand the ring locations IF the 11 was centered within the vitals, allowing the most room for error, but that's not the case.

Anyway, just curious, I meed a lot of people at 3D tournys that I wouldn't share an elk camp with, as there is lots of boasting about kill-shot distances and this and that, and half of them I swear have learned all of their shot placement from 3D targets. Yesterday I watched a guy step up to the stake, look through his binos, shoot a buck high and back and then fist pump as he stepped away from the station "Nailed Him!!!". I, along with 2 other guys, looked at him a little puzzled and then asked him "You mean, you hit him in the 11 ring . . . not necessarily where you'd want to hit him at this shot angle?" He responded "NOOO, I hit him right where you SHOULD hit a live buck and I drilled that 11 ring" very smugly. I turned to the other 2 guys and we all shared a good eye-roll. I hope these people aren't out wounding animals every year trying to hit 11 rings . . .

Sooooo, do any of you 3D shooters like myself, purposely shoot 3D targets where you SHOULD hit them given shot angles and obstructions for the "quickest kill" on the foam targets, or do you shoot for score? I notice a LOT of guys sneaking range finders onto the 3D course and guys marking higher scores than they are really getting . . . Hey, those Pro-Staff guys are Expected to WIN these tournaments . . . one way or another!!! I'm a decent shot, but I don't cheat and I don't expect to win tournaments, so I try to get the most out of practicing like I hunt.

How about you? I'll step off my soap box now.

[ctdad]

I agree that 11 rings on 3d targets aren't always ideal shot location. When I shoot indoor 3d in the winter, I essentially feel like I'm shooting paper b/c the distance never changes and I'm aiming at a dot (which is sometimes hard to see without binos). However, when shooting outdoors, the best thing I get out of 3d shooting is the range estimation. Also, if you shoot with others, there is a little bit of pressure to perform. Always good to have pressure to improve yourself.

[buglmin]

Shooting 3D's isnt about proper arrow placement. And most 11 or 12 rings are placed to challenge you, and make you pay in points if you miss. In most 3D shoots, you can always play it safe and shoot 10 rings all day long, but you'll never win that way. 3D's is all about figuring out the range and accuracy, being able to hit the 11 or 12 ring and winning!

[ElkNut1]

When I'm shooting 3d it's for score, generally it's shooting with the guys & we try to best each other! (grin) 3d shoots are great fun & allows the competitive side to be exposed especially with compound bows. It's all about the camaraderie & fun for us.

A few years back we shot nothing but trad bows & it was all about score then too but we were in it for placing high up as there isn't nearly the competition there as with guys shooting compounds. Just get out there & have fun plus it's great practice, find the good in it! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Indian Summer]

I don't shoot 3d at all. I did one time 25 years ago and just found it wasn't my crowd. Id rather walk through the woods with 2nd rate arrows and blunts and stump shoot. I used to shoot the DART system alot. No leagues though. Loved it!

To me, from the perspective of a hunter, those types of things serve 1 purpose. To quit aiming at a bullseye on a conventional target and getting used to picking a spot. The right spot one would think. Then.... after doing it long enough the whole point is to make that spot 2nd nature in your mind. Your eye and your pin should find their way to that spot without a concious effort. To aim at that 11 ring is making crappy arrow placement 2nd nature.... does that sound like a good idea? Heck NO!

You should take a pic of a deers organs etc and show it to those guys. Maybe politely tell them that that's a great shot but here's the reality of it. Then put one where it belongs and say "Now THAT is an 11" Hit that 11 on a quartering to shot and what do you get? A wounded animal every time right. I doubt you'll get most of those guys to listen long enough to explain that "the spot" changes with the angle of the animal. They aren't using a hunter mentality. They are shooting bullseyes. They could just as well go back to shooting convention targets. It makes me scratch my head to know that alot of 3d shooters don't even hunt at all. ????

If you want to be a real clown you could just take a Sharpee marker and write "11" on the targets where it belongs. lol

[mtnmutt]

I have heard the same comments you gave about their experiences at 3D shoots, so I was hesitant about trying 3D shoots. I only started doing them to improve my shooting, especially, my range estimation.

In the summer, I practice 3D twice a week hitting the heart/lung shot. Not the 11 ring. It can be more difficult to remove the arrow from the target for heart lung shot on 3D, but I don't have a speed bow that penetrates too deeply on targets.

Last October, I just started doing local 3D fun/charity shoots, not tournaments. I don't care to get a high score, however, I did cave in and aim for the 11 ring. I will switch back to the heart lung shots in mid-June. I don't like the habit of aiming for the 11 ring, so I prefer to spend my summer practicing the heart lung shot.

Yesterday, I was fortunate to shoot my 1st 3D tournament with some great people. They were all from the same family. They were good. They do about 10 3Ds a year in CO and NM. They never cheated. They were not arrogant. They never bragged, but did support each other, including me, the outsider in the group. The 2 women won 2nd and 3rd place. Great group of people.

I hope you have a better group next time. If that ever happened to me, I may be inclined to skip tournaments and only do the fun 3D shoots.

Do what works for you.

[easeup]

I usually do a 3d about once a month. It is great training for you. for a number of good reasons.
some guys dont shoot well with pressure. if you learn to focus with tournament pressure you will do better in the field when the ivory comes in through the trees; and some guys cant shoot well with someone watching them shoot. I mean what if you were hunting with Indian Summer and you choked the shot because you were too concious of him looking at you and your focus was poor?

another thing I learned that is good, quit looking at the target. (meaning the size of the animal and where you should shoot him). sure that ring isnt where you shoot in real life. but if you train your eye and focus to hit one spot on command irregardless of whether than spot is on a 6ft tall buffalo or on a 1ft tall jackrabbit, you will be a better shot in real life for the moment of truth.

I know the score doesnt mean anything to most of us. but it is a no-sh!t number that is a reflection of how you did on that day. the course varies, the wind blows, the shadows were tough and maybe your estimation skills were a little off that day. I learned to get over the fact I wasnt going to win but I was going to focus on one shot at at time and execute each one for the best score possbile. that is good training and makes me a better hunter and my confidence grows because of it.

then of course is the mental excerise of yardage estimation...nuff said on that one

lastly it is fun when you are with like minded people. I too have seen the pro shooter wannbe crowd. OK let them have their space as well. they are after their own reward.

with all of that said, I will keep shooting at those silly little circles wherever they are placed......

[planebow]

When I shoot at 3D shoots I dont keep score anymore. I do not pay much attention to the rings. When they place some of the targets out they set them at angles that the rings are not in the correct positions.

[LckyTylr]

Thanks everyone, lots of good replies.

Interesting to see all of the different mentalities and approaches to 3D.

If nothing else, I accomplished the goals of a 3D shoot, we got some exercise, we practiced range estimation, we got to shoot a few arrows (and I killed a whistle pig at ~25 yards), and we had FUN!

I only saw one other dead whistle pig throughout the day, so of 300+ shooters, I was one of 2 guys to draw blood.

[ironhead22]

Depending on what brand 3-D targets depends on the "11" ring is, Rinehart does a pretty good job of placement sespecially on angled shots. They have pmultiple kill zones.
When i shoot its for score but its also for judging distance, never a bad thing to brush up on after winter layoff.

[cnelk]

When I shoot at 3D shoots I dont keep score anymore. I do not pay much attention to the rings. When they place some of the targets out they set them at angles that the rings are not in the correct positions.

BINGO!

For those that have to have that broadside shot, 3d targets and scoring are for you.

I like to play a little more lifelike scenarios - I.e. quartering away shot I shoot for the opposite leg.
In 3d, that shot will typically net you an 8 for a score.

But out in the woods, that shot will net you an animal that scores MUCH higher than that....

[buglmin]

LOL...shooting competitive 3D is just that, competion, period!! And its a game about range estimation and accuracy, weither youre shooting a trad bow or a compound. Its a place where being off a 1/8" is the difference between winning and loosing. And its a sad idea to think that guys have a hard time telling the difference between 3D scoring and real world killing shots. You shouldnt go to a 3D shoot to learn shot placement, you should go to improve your shot accuracy and range estimation. And you should keep score, so you can shoot the best you can, so you can try to be the best you can.

[dapper]

When I go to a 3d shoot its to come up with a higher score. Because usually I'm with my son, we make it a competition, set a wager and have a good time. We never score in the top, matter of fact we are usually in the middle. I used to beat him most of the time and now he beats me all the time. I NEED TO START MAKING HIS ARROWS AGAIN!
I can see where some budding bowhunters might think this is where to shoot, but hopefully most have been mentored into the sport by someone that is a good experienced hunter.