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Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

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Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Swede » 10 04, 2020 •  [Post 1]

When in dangerous country, like known Grizzly bear habitat I believe it is a good idea to have some personal protection. Carry bear spray or a heavy sidearm. But, is it really necessary 99.9% of the time? Forest Service employees, except their law enforcement people, don't carry. The only time I have ever heard of one of the LEOs using their gun is at the range shooting paper. In my 35 years with the Forest Service, plus years before and after out in the forests, I have never felt the need for that kind of protection. Loggers normally don't carry any guns except in hunting season and then most don't.
So, my question is: Is a side arm really for protection or to make a statement?
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby wawhitey » 10 04, 2020 •  [Post 2]

Usfs guys and loggers arent keeping the wind in their face and minding the thermals and moving quietly. Hunting, odds of a close quarters surprise are much higher i think, just due to the way we do things. Not to mention ideally we will be packing meat, returning to a carcass for a second liad etc. I always carry.
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Trumkin the Dwarf » 10 05, 2020 •  [Post 3]

Situational awareness is great until you choose to put yourself in a compromised situation for some reason, like to kill an elk. Or to sneak into a basin through that creek so the deer can't hear you or smell you due to the thermals.

I don't always carry, but there's lots of times I do. And I think understanding your situation will make a firearm that much more effective, because you'll be expecting to draw it when the visibility is low, the wind is in your face, and that creek is roaring.
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Lefty » 10 05, 2020 •  [Post 4]

Last months Bugle had a couple good articles regarding bears.
But bears are a limited risk in comparison to other risks. I wear my seat belt on the drive to camp 8-)


But there is a lot more to situational awareness than bears. Many people need to live their life around their situations.Law enforcement is a good example , as a one time contractor working in the air, guys working on boats, loggers, even me as a shop teacher and behavior specialist.
And often a vivid mental awareness, and avoidance .Forms of protection, avoidance - de-escalation can be the most important
Im more afraid of bears, Last year we found a dead cow elk,.. no more hunting that mountain side. The year previous, came off the stand and Papa griz was 70 yards from the trail,.. dint hunt that area til this year

Jumping to personal protection; firearm vs others

And if your talking bad people , I don’t pretend to be some big bad dude, and feel the need to carry.
I don’t want to be the guy who points a firearm at someone and needs to make the choose.Im more afraid of bears, but I also know2 there are bad guys in the woods and a different type of fear

I have bear spray in my pack on my trekking poles mounted in the camper, mounted in the shell of my pickup
In every door of my truck, beside my bed,,,,,
I know I would hesitate with a firearm, When there would never be hesitation with spray what ever the reason
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby >>>---WW----> » 10 05, 2020 •  [Post 5]

Let's face it, police officers don't carry firearms for your protection. The carry for their own protection.

I managed a national forest campground for several years. Sometimes I carried and sometimes I didn't. But there were a couple of times I did have to make it known that I was armed.

When hunting, My concerns are of the two legged type and those big white guard dogs that sheep herders use.
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Swede » 10 06, 2020 •  [Post 6]

Bill, I never knew being a campground host was so dangerous. I do not know what was going on, but injecting a gun into a disagreement is a serious escalation of a matter.
In my life, I remember reading of one incident where a young F.S. employee was adducted, raped and murdered. From what I remember it did not matter what her job was, or what she had been doing. It made headlines here in the northwest. Certainly dealing with people alone can potentially escalate out of control if we are not reasonably careful. I just have never had a situation I could not deal with to the point where I wish I had a gun.

Years ago I was in the forest returning from a daily bow hunt. I stopped the pickup along a main gravel road to look at some fresh logging with my son. We never unbuckled our seat belts as we sat there. Within a couple of minutes this fire watch came up to us with his rifle in hand, and was threatening us. I drove off and immediately called the cops.
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby jmez » 10 06, 2020 •  [Post 7]

Not necessary in most situations. Mostly based on simple insecurity, rampant in today's society. False sense of bravado. Threads come up often on AT about this. You get 7 pages of experiences guys have had that "make them carry a gun.". Zero of which they "needed" the gun.

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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Tigger » 10 07, 2020 •  [Post 8]

Interesting topic. I have never needed one. But we have had griz attacking people 5 times near us while hunting. Legit maulings, all within 5 miles. We carried both spray and a pistola.

In WY this year where there were no bears, we didn't carry a gun or spray. Ran into a sow with cubs at 7 yards and another at 22 yards. Didn't need one as it turned out there either, but during the staredown, I was wishing I had one! If I was hiking in the back country with my family, I would bring one. Other than weight, I see no downside to having one.

As far as 2 legged varmints, that is a tougher call. I don't want to ever pull a gun on anyone. I pray I am never in that type of situation. I rarely carry around here as our community is really safe. Not that something couldn't happen here, but I feel safe here.
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby saddlesore » 10 10, 2020 •  [Post 9]

Couple of reasons to carry a sidearm.

If riding and packing horses or mules and they fall and break a leg, you need something to put them down with. It is darn hard to kill one with a rock. I have had to do it twice to other people's animals that the owner was not carrying.

More and more people are visiting and using the back country without leasing their dogs and some can very aggressive.

In national parks thru out the US and in especially Colorado trailheads etc., assaults, vandalism, and theft is becoming more and more of a problem. In Colorado Springs if you have to do business in the SE side of the city after dark, you darn sure better be armed. With today's riots and not so peaceful protest we see,situational awareness is not going to save you and if you are counting on police to protect you,you are living in a fantasy world.

I practice situational awareness all the time, but there are times when that is not enough. I carry personal protection for myself and to protect me and mine
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby Swede » 10 10, 2020 •  [Post 10]

Welcome back Saddlesore. I missed your goofy comments. :lol: In all sincerity, I did miss reading your insights and comments. I hope all is well. Did you get to do any more hunting?
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Re: Situational Awareness Vs Personal Protection

Postby DirtyErn » 10 10, 2020 •  [Post 11]

Very interesting topic. After earning two black belts in 2 different disciplines the first word in Self Defense is “Self” not police, not guardian Angle, Self. When watching the news you’ll notice when something bad happens, someone always states “ this is a great neighborhood, this never happens here”. Bad things happen everywhere, every neighborhood. Carry or not carry spray or gun is personal choice( but neither do any good in your pack) I used to carry both while hunting because I was too lazy to take bear spray off pack Belt from hiking season, plus spray is good on people, dogs if need be. While hunting I alway carry my .44 on my chest holster now, I really like it there, close to my heart, it has one job too do and it likes hunting season as well. I would rather have it and not need it, then lay on my back wondering why I was too lazy too get it out of the safe.
Hiking season I’m more apt to have bear spray on belt and .45 in bino case, plus a nice pocket knive in opposite hand pants pocket.
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