Muzzle Loader Questions

[Deanmac]

I have a TC Encore ML barrel, CVA Optima and Wolf all in 50 Cal. and inclines with removable breach plugs. All have scopes with iron Sites removed.

I have read the regs and realize I have to make major adjustments for the laws in GA verses CO. No Sabots, No Pellet power, No Scope, ETC.

I have also read some old threads on here about bullet choice and powder load. I noticed it was suggested not to use powder that was over a year old. I do have a couple of unopened containers (still sealed) of American Pioneer Powder FFG,
This is loose powder and I assume would be legal in CO. Anyone have any experience in use this Product I see it is made in Whitewater CO ?

Since I a pretty much starting from scratch with new sights, bullets and powder any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My hunting partner is in the same boat and he will use what ever I come up with. of course pending shooting patterns.

[Mathewsz7-elkridge]

Black powder has a long shelf as long as it doesn't get wet! I personally don't use the powder I have in my speed loaders from the previous season. I don't have any bullet suggestions though because all I use is sabots. I would mess around with the amount of powder you use per bullet you try. I notice a huge difference in accuracy from 100 to 150 grains.

[dotman]

I by no means am an expert but if you are not using Blackhorn 209 you really are not with the times, it is so so much cleaner then even triple 7, no patches between shots needed and very consistent charges. Just don't use water to clean it up.

In CO I use Thor bullets 300gr and hardcasts No Excuses 465gr, both are very accurate. If you try the Hornady FPB you have to size it first ( place the bullet in the end of the barrel tip first and push it all the way out thru the breach of the barrel). My buddy used the Federal Bor Lok and did get very good accuracy but didn't kill with them yet.

So a few options for CO bullets are Thor, No Excuses, Hornady FPB and Federal. Stay away from power belts as they just aren't that great overall.

I highly suggest BH209 and unlike traditional black powder, it is water resistant and can be used if more then a year old. When cleaning after using BH209 clean just as you would a centerfire rifle. I have shot 30rd straight using BH209 without patching, NAML does an annual test shooting 50 rounds without patching and no loss of accuracy.

I highly recommend using a peep over open sites, peep is legal in CO. I use a Williams peep and front site and can shoot targets out to 250 yards. The NECG peep is also a really good choice but it is a set it and forget it once you are sited in at 100 yards, still pretty easy to be effective at 150 yards though.

I love black powder and the CO regs are about perfect imo, no scopes or sabots needed.

[CurlyTail]

I second the enthusiastic recommendation for Blackhorn 209. As the name suggests, you muzzleloader must use a 209 primer with this powder. I recommend the hottest primer you can buy like the CCV 209 magnum. Avoid the so called "muzzleloader primers" which are not as strong. With BH 209 you do not have to dicharge your gun at the end of the day and it will not corrode your barrel sitting overnight. I like that. Max charge on BH209 is 120 rather than the usual 150.

I shoot the Thor all copper bullets. I use 110grains of BH 209 with a 250grain Thor Ballistic Tip bullet. No problems to date.

[saddlesore]

All these different bullets are just a matter of personal preference just like center fire rifle bullets.It is more of where you hit them rather than what you hit them with. I load 100 gr of Goex BP behind the Power Belts, but I"m not one to shoot much past 100 yards as I find most elk are killed less than that.I load 90 gr of Goex behind the Maxiballs.

[Deanmac]

Great comment guys, thinks a bunch,

I was wandering about using a peep, I am ex-military and feel conformable using a peep sight, I will check out the options.

Will also check on the 209 powder

Keep the comments coming

[saddlesore]

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[Waygoner]

I'm also using BH209 with Thor bullets. Great combo for my Traditions Vortek.

[dotman]

Around here, black powder is about $18 a pound. Bh209, is about $36 for ten ouncs

It's more expensive because it is such an improvement and has zero competition, once you use it you'll see why it's all so many use.

[swmoelk]

I'll be trying some hornday fpb this year in 350 setting on bh209 .

[Deanmac]

Around here, black powder is about $18 a pound. Bh209, is about $36 for ten ouncs

The American Pioneer Powder I mentioned was FREE, but I guess no one has used it. Shockley endorses and uses this powder and reading what is on the site it has many of the same claims as BH209?

[saddlesore]

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[dotman]

Around here, black powder is about $18 a pound. Bh209, is about $36 for ten ouncs

It's more expensive because it is such an improvement and has zero competition, once you use it you'll see why it's all so many use.

Improvement has nothing to do with the price. The no competition does, it should not cost any more than any center fire rifle powder as it doesn't cost any more to make.

It don't use it for the reasons stated, you can't use it in all muzzle loaders and it is harder to ignite.
It is just another gimmic sales/marketing ploy for those who want to make muzzle loader hunting as easy as center fire rifle hunting and those too lazy to clean their barrels.Some guys even brag that they still have their ML charged since last hunting seaons.

It might be fine at the range, but who fires 30 shots in ML season hunting elk. Even if I were to use it, if I fired my ML during the day while out hunting ,I would clean it that night.

Ok, well I guess you can stick with lighting your campfire by rubbing two sticks together while I'll use a bic lighter because we all know it must be a gimmic it makes lighting a fire so easy.

Nothing wrong wanting to stay as traditional as you can get but your reasoning is lazy sounding and to call something a gimmic because you don't want to change any components or process is silly. BH209 is 1000x cleaner burning, less corrosive and easy to ignite if you use a 209 primer as the product was designed to be used with. If you feel it makes life easier I get that, it does when you don't have to worry about that component of ML hunting as much as you had to in the past.

Yes no one shoots 30 times in a row while elk hunting, but those of us that actually practice and go to the range do and it is quite nice to not have to mess around cleaning just to shoot more then a few rounds. Also during hunting season it is nice to not have to clean your ML once until you put it up for the season and if God help us you accidentally leave the powder in or don't clean your ML it will not be ruined by the corrosive nature of old school bp.

[saddlesore]

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[dotman]

Muzzle loader seasons were set to be a primitive type hunt. That is what I do and I enjoy . I regard the the new technologies of both the newer in-lines and compound bows as only something guys do so they can hunt more seasons instead of the primitive type hunting.If I had my say, only recurve or long bows and Flintlock or percussion type side locks would be permitted.

You have no idea who I am and how much practicing I do.

I hunt with center fire rifles and handguns too,,but like to adhere to the primitive themes. Younger guys have no clue what that means.

Yup I have no idea who you are but see your view is the only correct view point. Many of us hunt bow, ML and rifle seasons as it extends our hunting seasons, sorry I'm not to proud to say I'm ok not using caveman methods. As far as saying the ML season was designed to be primitive then maybe you should have the laws changed to only recurve bows for archery and hawkin flintlocks for ML and lever action rifles for centerfire.

I don't think anyone has said using old style primitive bp and musket caps is wrong but you sure are against the other options and feel they are gimmicky which just isn't true, you just don't like the improvements that have come along is all. You should actually try bh209 and a modern 209 ignition source it is still fun and by no means is it extending anyone's range that doesn't shoot 100's if not 1000's of rounds a year. I personally shoot my ML a few hundred times a year.

The OP is asking about the best ML combinations that are legal in CO, not the most primitive style.

[dotman]

Around here, black powder is about $18 a pound. Bh209, is about $36 for ten ouncs

The American Pioneer Powder I mentioned was FREE, but I guess no one has used it. Shockley endorses and uses this powder and reading what is on the site it has many of the same claims as BH209?

If free I would give it a go, at least see what it is all about.

[saddlesore]

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