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Woods carry sidearm

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Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 09, 2023 •  [Post 1]

What is your go to woods carry?

I am a late comer to woods carry, but with a wife and daughter it became apparent that having "something" was going to be better than nothing out dispersed camping. It has become more sketchy the last few years. I never worried and don't now, but I see the potential for trouble in a way that just was not very common a few years ago.

Here is my 1911. Big, bold and heavy. Between my diesel truck and this thing hanging on my hip they are moving down the road to hassle the tent campers in the Prius. Better odds.

.45 acp
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The holster is what I chose for woods carry- easy on off a belt was first criteria. I can take it off my pack belt and onto my waist belt in seconds. I think the design won an award or something. Military surplus. The flap keeps out the needles and all that seem to get into everything hunting the timber.
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Not a quick draw set up but my view is thats never how it happens anyway, from my own personal experience. And if it did happen so that a quick draw is all there is between you and whatever, you are pretty much done already regardless. Personal experience as well. Life is not like they show it on TV. And it sure is not like some gun channels would have you believe, a boogieman around every corner jumping out. Or just find a nicer neighborhood to frequent maybe. Or a safer place to go camping- but its a toss up if where you go will have a trouble bunch or not or they set up later when you are hiking.
IDK. I digress.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 09, 2023 •  [Post 2]

This is always on my hip in the woods. S&w 627pc. .357 with an 8 round cylinder and 5" barrel. Loaded with 180 grain swift a frames.

I shot a bear that needed an attitude adjustment with my 44 mag (sold that gun) about 10 years ago. Ive had several other sketchy occasions where i had my gun drawn on bears and probably should have shot, but didnt, and luckily it turned out okay. Couple years ago i came really close to blasting a bull moose in the face that just wouldnt leave me alone. That was scarier than any bear encounter ive had. Probably because of the trouble id have had if i had to call idfg and explain to them why i shot a moose. Anyway, theres been several times ive been glad i was carrying, even though the trigger didnt get pulled. I dont go in the woods without a sidearm.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 09, 2023 •  [Post 3]

Is that a "K" frame? Those fit me really well and seem easy to shoot.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 09, 2023 •  [Post 4]

Its an N frame, and i put big target grips on it. I do have an old K frame (66-2) also, but i like this 8 round cylinder. During the warm months ill usually load it with 6 regular rounds, and 2 snake loads, lined up to where the snake loads would be the last 2 shots, so if i have to blast a rattler i just rotate the cylinder backward to get to the shot shells.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 09, 2023 •  [Post 5]

Downside to my 1911 is bird rounds not an option (I think). Just did a search. They are available.

My neighborhood friends dad had a colt woodsman 22. Man how I wish my dad owned that pistol. As it was, my childhood friend never hunted, let alone went on a hike or camped out. I would have put some rounds through that little dubber if it had been in our house when I was growing up.

The load I prefer
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 10, 2023 •  [Post 6]

Found a good deal on fiocchi jhp, so i ordered 500 rounds for practice ammo. Wasnt much more than buying junky fmj, so figured i may as well scoop some up. Just arrived today. Ill be blasting a lot of paper for a while. Been slacking on practicing with my sidearms lately. Seems i go through phases where i practice a good amount, then i get complacent and dont shoot for a while. But a guys got to practice, or a sidearm likely wont do you much good. I really have no excuse not to shoot more. I can shoot in my own back yard, or go a quarter mile down the road to the gravel pit and shoot. Need to put more rounds down my 9mms too.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Swede » 02 11, 2023 •  [Post 7]

I think Matt Dillon and Dirty Harry would both be proud of you two. :lol:
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Lefty » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 8]

Depends on what Im doing.
I mostly carry bear spray during elk season and if just hiking Julie and Andrew carry big pistols and bear spray.

Most of the year I have my old Benelli MI ,, well maybe all year long :lol: in my truck for lots of reasons.

My typical load is my cheap steel BB goose loads delivering about three times the energy than the

"most powerfull hand gun in the world,,, " Dirty Harry
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 9]

Lefty wrote:Most of the year I have my old Benelli MI ,, well maybe all year long :lol: in my truck for lots of reasons.

My typical load is my cheap steel BB goose loads delivering about three times the energy than the

"most powerfull hand gun in the world,,, " Dirty Harry


But would you actually carry that thing around in the mountains all day? Or does it stay in your truck? A rocket launcher in your truck doesnt do you any good on a 10 mile hike. And i cant believe those steel bbs are carrying 3x the energy as a 300gr chunk of lead, unless theyre going 6000fps. Ill need some sources for that

Just looked at steel bird shot and its leaving the barrel at roughly the same speed as 270 - 300 grain chunks of lead from a 44 mag. No way does it carry near the energy. A light steel bb will get stopped by bone and fur and muscle far sooner than a 300 grain chunk of lead traveling a similar velocity. Now if youre talking about slugs or 00 buck in a 12 gauge, well have a different comparison. But in the end, a guy aint carrying a shotgun around as readily as a revolver
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Swede » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 10]

This argument has been made before, but it gets interesting. I think there is a place for different guns. If I was guiding big game hunters in parts of Alaska a 12 ga with 00 buckshot would be a great defense against ornery bears. I like the Winchester model 12 with a 20-inch barrel. We can debate my gun choice, but that seems to be a very potent deterrent. If I am bow hunting alone in grizzly country, then a high-power pistol or bear spray would be best. In that situation it would be important to me to have the pistol/spray in hand and the bow lashed to my pack when I was hiking around.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 11]

Yes we can debate the merits of different types of guns til our faces are blue, its been done online and offline for years. But claims of kinetic energy are very cut and dry, factual, non debatable. The data, the facts, are there. No steel bbs from a 12 gauge have 3x the energy of a hunk of lead from a 44 mag. Youre talking subjective, vs objective reality.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Swede » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 12]

I agree Whitey. What we carry for protection or if we carry and why are where the debate is made. Kinetic energy is measured.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 12, 2023 •  [Post 13]

Swede wrote:IWhat we carry for protection or if we carry and why are where the debate is made. .


And thats why the "bear defense gun" debate will pop up forever, with no definitive answer. Too many variables, too many theories, and we all have our own thoughts on the subject. I think at the end of the day, the only people who are wrong are the guys who say it cant happen to them, and the guys who think bears are all bloodthirsty mankillers out to get us.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 13, 2023 •  [Post 14]

K energy is not as important as momentum (try to stop a locomotive vs stop a bicycle, same fps). I think a face of birdshot is pretty attitude changing, usually.

I chose .45 over 9mm even though it is proven that the nine is easier to shoot. My practice is real world. Double tap. One in the crotch, by the time the second is launched the pistol climb has that bullet touching target at center chest on a man. Real world thats all the time your gonna get.

I am okay with whatever comes next because if something is still coming after that it was never win-able anyway.

Guide gun? 45-70 all day long.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 13, 2023 •  [Post 15]

Jhg wrote:
Guide gun? 45-70 all day long.


I was looking for a 45-70 dark series, but ended up with a 444 marlin, which i didnt know marlin made in the dark series (was never listed on their website, they made very very few. I thought the ad was a scam, and i actually called marlin to ask, and was assured a 444 dark series does in fact exist, but wasnt listed on their site because it was an "afterthought") but 45-70, 444 marlin, alligators crocodiles. I can tell you from good exerience that a 444 puts down bears with authority. I got the shipping notice on my 444 suppressor. As soon as i have it in my hot little hands ill be loading up 280 grain a frames for it. Also some hammer bullets and lehigh extreme penetrators. Big bore lever guns are just awesome, everybody should own one. No, theyre not long range weapons, but too many people put too much emphasis on the long range thing nowadays imo. In the last 3 seasons ive taken 7 bears with that 444, longest shot 50 yards.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 13, 2023 •  [Post 16]

When I was a kid I found a 45/70 round in my Dad's hunting closet. Why it was there no clue. Dad owned two guns, a .22 Savage bolt and a JC Higgins bolt goose gun.

That planted the seed. Once I read about hard cast (decades later) shooting through the big bears end to end, shoulders and hips oh my, that pretty much sealed the deal for me.

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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 13, 2023 •  [Post 17]

44 mag, vs 444 marlin. Bullets are interchangeable, but ones got quite a bit more snort behind it.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Lefty » 02 14, 2023 •  [Post 18]

WA

Long ago a buddy told after I was complaining about recoil of his 44 SuperBlackhawk. Yeah I was a weenie it hurt my wrist

So I went searching And I admit it wasn't what I recall. So on my next trip to the store Ill pick up some buckshot for when we are packing meat

I found some calculation sites,, but not willing to put the time in to work the numbers



These were from Wikipedia :oops: So Im guessing these are muzzle energy,

A 1 oz. (437.5 grain) 2 3/4-inch Foster 12 gauge shotgun slug achieves a velocity of approximately 1,560 fps with a muzzle energy of 2,363 ft. lbs.

. 44 Magnum.
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
300 gr (19 g) JSP Cor-Bon 1,250 ft/s (380 m/s) 1,041 ft⋅lbf (1,411 J)
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Lefty » 02 14, 2023 •  [Post 19]

wawhitey wrote: But a guys got to practice, or a sidearm likely won't do you much good. .


I know that is where my biggest fault lies,, And maybe the best excuse why I dont carry a pistol.

Im old and fat, and have slowed down and certainly not Tom Knapp, But I can load and shoot that M 1 gun accurately in my sleep
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby wawhitey » 02 15, 2023 •  [Post 20]

[quote="Lefty"



These were from Wikipedia :oops: So Im guessing these are muzzle energy,

A 1 oz. (437.5 grain) 2 3/4-inch Foster 12 gauge shotgun slug achieves a velocity of approximately 1,560 fps with a muzzle energy of 2,363 ft. lbs.

. 44 Magnum.
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
300 gr (19 g) JSP Cor-Bon 1,250 ft/s (380 m/s) 1,041 ft⋅lbf (1,411 J)[/quote]


Thats a slug. A 1 oz lead slug. Whole different ballgame from steel shot
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby 7mmfan » 02 15, 2023 •  [Post 21]

I killed a deer some years ago with a 3" load of number 4 steel shot out of a 20 ga. I was duck hunting during our local late blacktail season and took a detour through an island clearing I knew deer frequented. I really didn't expect to be able to sneak up on anything. Low and behold, I walked up within about 30' of a little forkhorn blacktail buck. I put the bead right on the temple and squeezed it off. It knocked him silly, but didn't kill him outright. Even at that distance there was not enough KE to penetrate a deer's skull far enough to kill him instantly. I had to charge up and shoot him again. It was quite messy and I vowed to never do that again.

Anyway, just throwing that out there, steel shot will hurt an animal like hell, but for a big pissed off bear it will probably just piss it off even more. I'd never rely on it for bear defense. If I was carrying a shotgun, it would be loaded with the biggest load of buckshot I could find and followed by one or two slugs.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 15, 2023 •  [Post 22]

I shot a cow moose with a .243 and the results were less than satisfactory. Penetration was one lung. This was quartering away. I hate being responsible for putting an animal through undue distress because of my actions and that lesson was first learned, the hardest way, that day. Straight broadside would have worked, barely.

Plenty of k energy in that. 243 but not enough weight. If it had been a heavier projectile, momentum would have done what K energy could not.
K energy is the big thing for a lot of contraption archers, still, even in the face of penetration studies that clearly show the beneficial relationship of more weight for deeper penetration in less than perfect scenarios over a lighter set up. But few want to give up velocity and range. Light and fast, which is great I admit, right up until its a marginal hit on bone.

For a sidearm against animals it really is about putting the first shot where it needs to be because from the recorded events vs animals I have read there is rarely a second shot on target (recoil & closed distance) if a second was able to be launched at all.
Fact: Most people carrying a big magnum pistol cannot put a second shot on target down range in time if their life depended on it. No pun intended. It takes a lot of range time to learn how to really shoot a heavy load from a pistol and they have discovered most people find reasons not to shoot a big recoil sidearm like a 44 mag plus p or the larger boutique cartridges. Show me anyone who has put 1000 rounds or whatever through their 454 Casull to master it. Not many.
Add bad weather, uneven terrain with limbs and knee high brush or slippery leaves and a bear going ape 15 feet away and you suddenly have a lot more on your plate than standing in a booth at the range.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Jhg » 02 15, 2023 •  [Post 23]

I am pretty realistic about what could happen. Probably a woodsmans best skill in an encounter that might require self-defense is being able to read an animals behavior cues. I gave had many many close encounters and 99.9% could be easily read as benign based on animal posturing. A few, were clearly trouble. Being able to react in a way that defused those situations was very helpful, but it can't always be that you have time to display to the animal that the threat you represent is diminishing (all they care about) vs increasing.
In thick alders next to a small meadow I got between a cow moose and her calf. Never knew they were there until all hell broke loose and it was just luck she could see me clearly backing away. That saved me from attack and if I had taken one more step forward I am pretty sure it would have been bad for me. Another was a bull moose that was rutting. His posture was trouble right from the start and I went up into a huge deadfall pile to escape him. Even then, it took a baseball bat sized piece of wood thrown across his nose to get him off me.
I was taking lunch sitting a log when I heard a noise over my right shoulder. I turned and was looking into the face of a black bear. His face was less than 2 feet away from my face. I no longer lunch without a backstop.

These experiences taught me that you can not, despite your best efforts, avoid situations that will arrive without warning, and in places that are not to your advantage. If that bear meant ill, it was already over. I never knew he was there until it was too late. If that cow moose had attacked, the hummocky terrain I never could have outrun her on. If there had not been a handy deadfall pile so big as to be a refuge for me that bull may well have charged me.
So I remind myself, do not assume being very effective defending. I go from there and walk with humility.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby saddlesore » 02 15, 2023 •  [Post 24]

If riding I carry a .357 Rossi ,Model 92 in the scabbard.Walking, I carry a 3" snubby .357 Mag S&W, or a Sig 320 , 9 mm.

I have had 44 mag's, SBH, S&W 44 mag , Mountain Gun, 45 ACP, 1911.

I have found that all those bigger handguns at about 4 pounds put too much weight on one side.

We don't have grizzly's here, but have had three encounters with black bears and al were pretty shy.
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby Lefty » 02 16, 2023 •  [Post 25]

Thats a slug. A 1 oz lead slug. Whole different ballgame from steel shot[/quote]
I chased around on other sites Seems as if there are too many variables with shot shells I couldn't even find muzzle energy. But lots of good reading,,, and plenty of BS too :lol:

I will be buying some new buckshot :) for game retrieval




The only reason I carry a gun in the woods is for the game.

Crazy people,,, Ill use bear spray a whole lot sooner
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Re: Woods carry sidearm

Postby DirtyErn » 10 04, 2023 •  [Post 26]

Just saw this but i switched all of my woods goods 44 mag, 10mm and 45 to chest carry rigs that I’ve made from Kydex. Especially with the 44 mag I feel my backpack offsets the weight better. Also when my pack comes off my gun does not.
Also with 10 and 45 I can ride my mtn bike without it getting in the way. We have some “ target shooters “ in my area that think is ok to shoot down access roads.
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